State of the Org - 10-13-10

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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby godix » Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:59 pm

You know, GQ shouldn't be expected to tell us where the community is going. We shouldn't expect to get much feedback from the admins, or worry they're not taking anything seriously. We don't need feedback from the admins. This isn't a dictatorship where our leaders on high give us orders. Users are the community, we should decide and do things ourselves. If anything, we should be the one telling GQ where the community is going.

I was going to rant for awhile about how pathetic we are to expect the administration to magically fix everything, but I have a paper for Ethics class I gotta write later today. I'll save my sarcasm and curses words for that. Instead I'll just point out, if any user wants something done then it's best they do it themselves. Think the org needs more/updated guides? Then write them. Think we need to be nicer and not give criticism on videos? Then be nicer and don't criticize. Think the org needs more promotion? There's hundreds of banners available, start using them. Quit thinking that 'head admin' is synonymous with 'the guy who must do everything'. Site coding and updates, the only thing that really requires special permission to the site to do, are only a small part of where we're going. I can think of dozens of things that could be done to improve the site that don't need your name in green or red to do. Quit whining about how the admins don't do anything and start doing it yourself guys.
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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby post-it » Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:16 pm

a complete ramble on our future and its past; we haven't changed one bit around-here!!!

.. I'm trying to remember how things were, back in 2002, and even around 1993 when MPEG was becoming
a video standard. What I'm hearing from way-to-many-people seems to be the same stuff that we were
confused-about when I was first starting at this location: Storage and Download-ability.
1) 1993. Reveal TV-500 Capture Card. You could record thing from TV and Cable. Asymetrix Video Editor
was simple and did not cost very-much however; there were no Codec's which would shrink our files in the
VFW-1.1 era. A 14.4 modem was the norm and an 800 number connected you to the Internet for free.
2) 1998. ATI Capture Cards were All-In-Wonder disasters and the Divx 4.11 was a true head-ache with
greened-out playback video. True; it looked good when somebody got-it-right -- which was rare!
3) Late 1999. Those who didn't have a clue about Computers dominated the Press and the News Media
which basically covered "everyones attention" and we were stuck living through their lies. Very few
DVD's were available and DVD Ripping was left to those who could afford the Rippers. Doom9 had
many usefull tools and helped quite a bit ^__^. VCDhelp.com was started and its was great to be
and editor again. There was rumour of a site which dealt in Video Editing but, no one at Tokyo Underground,
Bobbies World ( she worked out of her college dorm ^_^ ) nor other message-boards knew where they were!?!
4) 2002. The Y2K scare was dropped and nobody even cared that they had been lied-to; those people
still have their jobs and Windows XP was flooding the markets. Some damage did come from XP but
nobody cared that the software designed in C++ no longer worked in this platform; so .. everybody bought
new Software .. .. only to find-out that "it" could do less than the old-perfered and reliable norms which
we all loved to hate: Virtual Dub, anything from Avid, MGI and Ulead didn't seem to understand what its
job was intended to be designed for, and Magix replaced AiST!!! DVD Rippers were now common place.
5) 2003 - 2007. Vista came and was quickly replaced by Windows XP ( again ) while System 7 was failing
to proof-itself useful with failing Winfile: on my laptop, it fails every time to even scan the directory which
was given a short-cut-to! The Weapons of Mass-Destruction were totally missed by the media because they
didn't understand that a stock-pile of over-produced-products sitting-in-warehouses could possibly be a
threat/danger to anyone except maybe a bank! The Threat was Management. Their Crime; over-produce
to get their quota's and then store the unsellable goods in a warehouse that the company would not have
access to. With the money tied-up in warehouse expenses, the Manages would get a kick-back from the
banks -- if ever bailed-out -- and this would force Companies to buy-back-Stocks instead of hiring people
to make the company look stronger. DVD's are now being made in Blu-Ray .. which won the "HD" wars.
6) 2008 - 2010. Who-ever gets elected can not be expected to solve any issues concerning high unemployment
because they will through millions of dollars at banks instead of taring-down-the-walls of over-packed-warehouses
and say that they-are-creating-jobs by Paying People. ( governments never made any sense to anyway!! )
System 7 has forced people into using a more reliable PC Platform for $29,95; Mac's OS-X for Intel. ^___^ hehe.
Video Editing has not changed from the 1993 days .. well, ok; the pictures are bigger than 320 X 240 today, but
they still fill our hard-drives when we Edit things! Uploading what we have snipped-together has returned as
an issue .. with everyone screaming Copy Right Infringement. Ghost editing AviSynth is the norm .. .. .. ??? .. Hey -- --
almost 17 years have passed and nothings really changed around here! ... 8-) :asd: :rofl: :up:

.. so, like .. .. what's the problem????
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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby Anicsi » Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:44 pm

I haven't been very active here myself for a while, but regarding the problems I pretty much agree on what Vivali said. I think the main issue here is our 'reputation'. We're regarded as being elitist. That's a matter of fact. I have a lot of friends who are editing who don't come here because they don't like the atmosphere, that amvs are analysed into detail rather than just enjoying them, even if they have flaws. Every great piece of art has its flaws, that's what makes it unique. And especially newbies who would just want a word of encouragement instead of a page's 'constructive criticism' may feel out of place here.
I am not saying this kind of criticism is wrong. I appreciate every hint i can get, i may agree or disagree on opinions about my videos, but how are new editors supposed to deal with that kind of feedback?
To make it short: I come here to talk about 'serious' amv-making, about contests, conventions and to ask for competent help when it's needed. To have fun, I go to youtube.
It's not only the way the community works, it's also the site itself, youtube is a internet platform with millions of visitors, technical support and tons of videos. You cannot expect the org to become a place like that. I don't know, maybe i just don't see the problem here, i would just like to know into what kind of place you'd want to turn the org.
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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby Pwolf » Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:00 pm

Anicsi wrote: i would just like to know into what kind of place you'd want to turn the org.


Exactly. What does the community want the org to accomplish? We can't be everything.
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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby DriftRoot » Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:44 pm

I'm going to say the first thing that came to mind: what I've always relied on the .Org to provide is a set of standards for the AMV hobby. This runs the gamut from the most basic belief in using quality footage to more abstract concepts like "originality" in an AMV. Yes, topics like this have been discussed and debated almost to death over the years around here, but I'd rather those discussions continue to be had than dismissed as irrelevant, or relegated to a platform like the 'Tube which - as has been pointed out - exists pretty much just to show off content.

To this end, I'd agree that the .Org's presence at cons is a help. But it's not just in the form of posters or flyers or business cards. It's in the presentation and explanation of quality videos, the ability of panelists, contest organizers AMV room admins. etc. to represent the values and knowledge of the .Org. Not saying the public face of AMVing belongs exclusively to the .Org alone, but it does benefit this site if the .Org's public image is consistently positive and authoritative on matters of AMVing.
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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby Vlad G Pohnert » Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:16 pm

I've promoted the org in my AMV rooms as the Data Admin... And Everyone who asks (as a LOT ask) where to get the videos, I point them to the org.. HOWEVER, once they are here is is up to all of us in if they like it or stay.. Sometime we all seem a bit too.. hmmm.. critical toeards aour hobbies but it might scare way those who are not creators but people who like to watch and talk AMVs

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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby Phantasmagoriat » Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:19 am

People could mention the org in their videos more.
I think I've only done it once in a trailer, but I could have easily mentioned the org in the Animethon Contest intro but didn't :shock:. It's simple, and in mass numbers it can be very effective. For something like a trailer, mentioning the org is pretty much perfect, because it can can act like a 'fake' company :P or advertisement. Slap on a generic but awesome slogan like: "AnimeMusicVideos.org. The definitive AMV resource." and you've got yourself a strong advertisement campaign (actually, if we come up with a slogan... that's totally my pick. Short, simple, and, descriptive. It could use a range of voice-overs too)

But people can be ultra-creative too. Just look at what AKROSS CON does: they require everyone to put their logo somewhere in the video for a minimum of 2 seconds. Other than that, editors can do whatever they want... so sometimes the best part of a video can be the logo >.> My point is that if you see something so often, and it seems like such a big deal, eventually you will check it out. I'm sure AKROSS has got a few people to migrate over there that way.

Also, think of all the stolen AMV's on YouTube that could/should have AnimeMusicVideos.org promo written all over them... it would be like "reversing the tides"... using YouTube to our advantage.

Plus, I think it can even be be quite fun. We are creative people. Nuf said. Perhaps as an incentive there could be a contest for "Best .org promotion" whether it be as part of the AMV or even if the promo was the AMV... because this would be a perfect excuse for people to simply make something >.>

IDK, just something to think about. I'm pretty sure I'll mention the org in any of my future AMV's now, even if I just say "For more information, check out AnimeMusicVideos.org" in the credits, but I can totally see myself having fun with it too :amv:
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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby Knowname » Fri Oct 15, 2010 3:27 am

Thing I hate about Nintendo and Apple is their stupid stamps of approval. Are we suggesting we put an org stamp of approval on everything org related? ugh. I like the way things are. Ppl know that when you want to get serious about amvs you go to the org. That's it.
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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby JaddziaDax » Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:00 pm

Now I'm confused.... do we or don't we want to advertise on the tube about the org? I was always under the impression that this would direct all those copyright holders to our site, and that it was considered somewhat taboo to link here in descriptions. If the case is that we do want to link, I can go over all my video descriptions and add the links.

I tend to go to both the tube and the org for different reasons. Here I can offer a full quality download for those who like to collect and keep the videos, and on the tube I can catch the casual viewers who only want to watch the video once or twice. Also the difference in feedback is nice. One often balances the other.

While this may seem jerkish of me to say so, but I don't make my videos solely for the org, therefore I don't want to put the org's logo on my videos. Same goes for AKROSS - I don't make my amvs solely for them so I don't want to put their logo on my video either (and it's just one of the many reasons I won't enter their contest). I make my videos for me and whoever wants to enjoy them. Which is why I put my logo/url on the front of them. >.>

Please don't take this as I'm not supportive of the org, because I do support it. It's just I don't like the idea of adding any more advertisement to my videos than what is already there.

I make my banners for the org, as specifically advertisement for the org. Which reminds me, I gotta get to making some banners with the new logo eventually. I really wish people would use the banners more, since that's what they are there for.

I'm all for advertising at cons. Since a lot of our target audience (anime fans) show up at cons. I wouldn't mind making myself some T-shirts with the amv logo on them and wearing them at the cons. I think the idea of making business cards available on the site store is a good idea so anyone who wants to buy them can hand them out. Unfortunately I'm currently somewhat broke, so I can't really afford either for myself at the moment... let alone go to any cons aside from the little local one. I also agree with DriftRoot's statements about presenting the org.

As for the idea of changing the tone of the org to be a bit more friendly, this will only happen if people start acting more friendly. This is one of the reasons I started posting on the forums. I wanted to change the tone of what I saw, and I decided to do it myself. Truthfully I think that the forums now are a lot more friendly than they were when I first started. But I do think that they have since regressed a bit.

However, friendliness seems to be confused with sugar coating and sugar coating is very looked down upon here. The way I see it, is that if sugar coating gets the message across, and gets the person to listen to much needed feedback, then I see nothing wrong with it. Being so brutally honest that you come off as an ass isn't anything to be proud of, it means you are an ass.

Battling the org's reputation isn't ever going to be easy. Although, if people don't like the tone of the forums when they get here, they can still participate in all the other places on the site, they don't have to go only on the forums. I actually didn't really participate on the forums until over a year after I joined. There are journals, just listing your videos, and the opinions/quick comments. I made a lot of my original org friends through opinion exchange and journals. The forums are not the entirety of the site. I try to stress this when I talk to people about joining who don't want to because "the org is elitist".

I also agree with Godix that we can't expect the admins to fix everything on the org. That if we see something that needs to be changed or fixed that we need to do it ourselves.

Anyway I'm in a bit of a rush, and can't think of more to say on the topic... I donno if any of that made any sense, but I gotta run :P
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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby Knowname » Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:19 pm

I do wish our target audience wasn't anime fans. It'd be nice to actually get some intelligent ppl here rather than just over sexed emo teens.
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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby ngsilver » Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:37 pm

Knowname wrote:over sexed emo teens.

o.0
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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby Phantasmagoriat » Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:42 pm

Knowname wrote:Thing I hate about Nintendo and Apple is their stupid stamps of approval. Are we suggesting we put an org stamp of approval on everything org related? ugh.
By no means do we have to use such aggressive advertising tactics like Nintendo and Apple, but if we want to have our presence felt, there still needs to be some visibility. AMV contest intro's would be one good place. Another would be in the credits of your AMV (if you make credits, again, a simple line like "For more information check out AnimeMusicVideos.org" can go a long way, and it's certainly not in-your-face). If people want to promote the org in their intro's and outro's is entirely up to them, but I think it could encourage creativity too.


Knowname wrote:I like the way things are. Ppl know that when you want to get serious about amvs you go to the org. That's it.
While I see some truth in this, I think that's a bit of an assumption. I would venture to guess there are people that grew up on streaming audio/video, and have no clue about HQ downloadable content.


JaddziaDax wrote:Now I'm confused.... do we or don't we want to advertise on the tube about the org? I was always under the impression that this would direct all those copyright holders to our site, and that it was considered somewhat taboo to link here in descriptions.[...]
I was wondering the same thing.
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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby Pwolf » Fri Oct 15, 2010 3:22 pm

I think giving the org more exposure at Cons is probably the best option... We don't need to put the logo in our videos if we put them else where... it doesn't matter. On the tube you can just show them where to get a high quality version for download. At NDK this year Yue made up a flier with some basic information about AMVs and Editing. She handed it out at the Iron Chef. She put the org on there. I think stuff like that will go a long way in getting more people to come here.

Every con I go to or speak at, I always mention the org and there's always people who don't know about it.
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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby DaCoolGohan » Fri Oct 15, 2010 3:26 pm

Ok so I didn't realize the community was dying. I do realize that popularity of older editors has gotten less, other than the more gimmicky/crowd pleasing ones, but I thought this community was going strong. I understand that the legal issues are getting to be a constant bother, since as much as people try the Music Industry and Film Industry are not that big into letting people use their content for free, even if you don't make money off of it. I haven't been that active on the site in the past few years and thats because I have been making the transition from College into the professional world doing Web Design, Video Editing, Motion Graphics/Animation and the like. It would be a sad day if this site got shut down for good, because the only reason I have jobs right now is because of AMVs. If I hadn't started web designing back in 99-00 and photo editing in 00-01 then I would have never found video editing & design as my calling for a career. This is the thing that some major companies don't take into account. When this site started in 2000 it was one of the pioneers of the Web 2.0 revolution. Although it has a changed a lot, I can't say that the reason we have distribution codecs, that are much better these days, wasn't influenced by AMVs. The site says we have 834,553 Members and I know at least 1/3rd or Half of those were active at one time if not now. Would they really brush such a large community under the rug because they need to make profits? I can't say that it won't happen but shit we get way too much flack for doing something we don't profit off of and shit I wouldn't have found half of the bands I love today if it wasn't for AMVs. So all I can say is I hope this place stays around, even if it isn't what it used to be, it has done a lot for the community.
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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby 8bit_samurai » Fri Oct 15, 2010 3:56 pm

"Remember when the Org was good?"

-The Org was never good.

But in all seriousness, even if you don't read this after the comment above, aside from a few aesthetic changes and upgrades, the only thing that seem to have changed (to me at least) are the users. Gods have fallen, heroes are forgotten, time goes on.

JaddziaDax wrote: Truthfully I think that the forums now are a lot more friendly than they were when I first started.

x2

It also seems more lax as well, which may or may not be a coincidence that around the same time the MEP and Screencaps, and perhaps a couple other forums have died down considerably, for better or for worse. Although I do admit that I miss the days when I first joined the Org.
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