Codecs Codecs Codecs!

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Codecs Codecs Codecs!

Postby Radical_Yue » Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:15 am

I was wondering what everyone's thought was about the "Intel Indeo 4.5" codec. It's what I use to compress clips that will be used in my vids. (My computer is too pitiful to handle clips with lossless codecs)

I find it does the job okay. What is your opinion?


(I know this is a stupid thing to ask about, but I was curious...)
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Postby AMV_4000 » Fri Aug 18, 2006 6:40 am

i dun recall accually using it.. i used to use MS Mpeg 4 v2 to edit with... but now, i choose huffy if the files are going into the video or onto the org... i still keep the videos in msmpeg4v2 compression... cause all theses videos would KILL my hard drive if i kept them on there as huffy...
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Postby Purge » Fri Aug 18, 2006 8:03 am

i tried encoding with it - i maxed out at 8 frames per second with keyframes every frame and i got dual CPU's. So its seems pretty slow at encoding. quality seemed workable
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Postby Infinity Squared » Fri Aug 18, 2006 9:18 am

I think I used Indeo at one point in time when creating Look To the Stars. It wasn't bad for a first pass thing, but after you reencode with it, you will definitely see lines going over the outlines of the source (as it happened in my video during the split screen effect). Err... or maybe that was Cinepak...
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Postby Shazzy » Fri Aug 18, 2006 2:42 pm

Indeo is basically Cinepak "advanced." The recommended max keyframe interval is 4. Indeo's roughly 30% faster than Cinepak.

There's also Indeo Video Interactive (IVI)..which is Indeo's successor (completely different internal design though).
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Postby Radical_Yue » Fri Aug 18, 2006 6:52 pm

shazzy wrote:Indeo is basically Cinepak "advanced." The recommended max keyframe interval is 4. Indeo's roughly 30% faster than Cinepak.

There's also Indeo Video Interactive (IVI)..which is Indeo's successor (completely different internal design though).


Cinepak makes me want to kill :D

But so far, Indeo has been pretty good to me. I find it maintains nice quality, and the files aren't monstorous like they are when are lossless codec such a lagarith or huffy is used.

The clips function really well in Vegas too. As long as you don't make them too long.
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Postby AthenAltena » Fri Aug 18, 2006 10:47 pm

I've tried Indio and it didn't really suit what I was looking for, but it seemed decent. I didn't have any major problems, I just preferred another one. I guess codecs are like shoes; some work for some people, some don't. :wink:
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Re: Codecs Codecs Codecs!

Postby trythil » Sat Aug 19, 2006 12:06 am

Radical_Yue wrote:I was wondering what everyone's thought was about the "Intel Indeo 4.5" codec. It's what I use to compress clips that will be used in my vids. (My computer is too pitiful to handle clips with lossless codecs)

I find it does the job okay. What is your opinion?


It's a time-consuming, quality-damaging, and absolutely unnecessary transcode, unless you're doing something like using the Indeo clips for preview and rendering from the original sources on final export. (Though, you might as well just use something like MJPEG for that...)
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Re: Codecs Codecs Codecs!

Postby trythil » Sat Aug 19, 2006 2:21 am

trythil wrote:
Radical_Yue wrote:I was wondering what everyone's thought was about the "Intel Indeo 4.5" codec. It's what I use to compress clips that will be used in my vids. (My computer is too pitiful to handle clips with lossless codecs)

I find it does the job okay. What is your opinion?


It's a time-consuming, quality-damaging, and absolutely unnecessary transcode, unless you're doing something like using the Indeo clips for preview and rendering from the original sources on final export. (Though, you might as well just use something like MJPEG for that...)


To back up what I've said:

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A high-motion scene from ADV's release of Kaleido Star, compressed with Indeo 4.5 and XviD. Original DVD frame and subtraction results provided for reference. Click the image for the full-size PNG.

The noise that Indeo introduces into the picture is quite evident even without looking at the subtractions (look around the edges if you're having trouble).

Image
Another frame capture. Notice how much of the red and blue information is distorted, especially at sharp edges.

This isn't a good thing in stuff like anime, where you deal with sharp edges all the time.

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One last capture.

I included XviD because lots of people (unfortunately) also use it. While the differences aren't quite so blatant, they're still there.

So what exactly is the problem with this picture degradation?

This sort of noise makes the picture more complex. This can really mess with your final compression, and, in general, produces a final product of lower quality. (It is possible to clean up affected areas in the transcode result, but that's just wasting time -- you might as well just operate on the original!)

This noise can also affect operations that rely heavily on color information, such as color correction and chroma keying. (Try applying a chroma key effect on two clips, one compressed with something lossy like Indeo and the other on the original source. You'll find that the areas affected will be quite different.)

If you cannot edit with the original sources at an acceptable speed, the method described here is often preferable to damaging the source video.
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