Question for the noobie (about animating cut outs and other)

The old Video Software Help forum, left visible as an archive.

Question for the noobie (about animating cut outs and other)

Postby milkmandan » Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:39 am

this question is probably very noob and asked a lot, but i dont know what words to use in the forum search so that it will give me the right results.

I want to learn how to cut out character, while he/shes moving.

Here is an example.
http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... hp?v=63712
watch this AMV by Piano.

In the beginning where you see the girl in red turn facing you...the background is a separate video, and the girl is cut out. I've learned how to cut out a single frame and place it over a video, thats no problem. But in this video the girl moves.

So how did he do it? I've seen this a lot in many AMVs. it seems easy, but i just dont know how to do it.
Image Image
User avatar
milkmandan
 
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Location: California

Postby CHAMELEON_D_H » Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:23 am

Its just like taking over the world, one frame at a time. :P
Image
Before asking, THINK!!! Have you read The Guides, consulted The Wiki and watched The Corn?
User avatar
CHAMELEON_D_H
 
Joined: 23 May 2003
Location: TA Israel

Postby milkmandan » Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:10 am

i highly doubt the specific way he did it is one frame at a time.

he did use a huge amount of after effects, i was wondering if it could be done in Adobe Premiere Pro, at ALL?
Image Image
User avatar
milkmandan
 
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Location: California

Postby milkmandan » Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:11 am

if there is absolutly no way of doing it in Adobe Premiere.

how do you do it in Adobe After Effects?
Image Image
User avatar
milkmandan
 
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Location: California

Postby badmartialarts » Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:16 am

Animating a mask is doable in After Effects. But I don't use After Effects so I can't tell you how. In Premiere Pro you'd have to make a image series to use as a track matte to achieve the same result (in other words, frame by frame). After Effects has a drawable mask that you can move from frame to frame. It's almost the same as doing each frame by hand but having the mask from the previous frame saves a little time. Also, I believe After Effects has one of those Magic Wand looking tools like Photoshop that tries to cut out a contiguous image by cutting around what it thinks is the edge of it. It's a big timesaver but it doesn't work for everything.
Life's short.
eBayhard.
User avatar
badmartialarts
Bad Martial Artist
 
Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Location: In ur Kitchen Stadium, eatin ur peppurz

Postby Xarathion » Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:43 am

Vegas can do it the long way as well. When you go into the Pan setting for a particular clip, you can check the "Mask" box at the bottom of the window and then click points all around the character you want to cut out. Unfortunately, if the character moves and leaves the mask you created, you have to do it all over again.

It also can be a little sloppier in the presentation since it doesn't work like an image editor and doesn't attempt to automatically find an edge or line when you place a point.

If you do try it in Vegas though, especially for other people that might be reading this, don't try to move a point after you have placed it. It does this weird vector thing that is really hard to work with that can screw up your mask if you're not careful.
Image
Image
User avatar
Xarathion
 
Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Location: North Carolina, USA

Postby CHAMELEON_D_H » Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:20 am

As far as I know, the only way to make this in premiere is via track matte, and its ithe gonna get you very bad results, or take you longer to make one frame than in photoshop. AE on the other hand is a diffrent story. using the pen tool you can draw what you want to cut out, and modify it in the next frame, if needed. that will save you time, but unless there's no motion, it's still frame to frame work.
Image
Before asking, THINK!!! Have you read The Guides, consulted The Wiki and watched The Corn?
User avatar
CHAMELEON_D_H
 
Joined: 23 May 2003
Location: TA Israel

Postby milkmandan » Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:12 pm

ok , so doing it frame by frame, seems like the only way for something to turn out nice..
so AE has the ability with the pen feature..honestly, that seems MUCH faster than taking each frame into photoshop, cutting out what you need then re-exporting.

but since i am not yet to that level of AE, for doing this frame by frame in Premiere Pro, i basically need to export what i want out in a series of bmps and then take it into Photoshop/Fireworks and cut it up, am I right? and then reimport the series back into APP and then just place each picture in order.

If i designate my in and out points, how can i make APP export a series of frames, instead of just one? I'd hate to do it one by one. ;)

thanks for all your help guys~
Image Image
User avatar
milkmandan
 
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Location: California

Postby milkmandan » Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:27 pm

sorry for the double post..

i guess the cheapest way to do it, is to find footage where the character and the background, contrast A LOT. but i'll need to rewatch Rozen Maiden to be sure of this.
Thats the only logical explanation for so many PERFECT cut outs.

If you can, watch the Rozen Maiden AMV I posted in the first post and explain to me exactly how the guy did the effect at 00:44 - 00:47 (minutes:seconds).

There is a mask around the book (which moves, but its only like 3-4 frames), i see, no problem, can be done. But then Shinku's face is acting as ANOTHER mask, and IT's MOVING AS WELL.

Its almost as if this person was able to use some kind of magic wand tool to just mask a characters face out.
Image Image
User avatar
milkmandan
 
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Location: California

Postby gangstaj8 » Mon Mar 27, 2006 4:51 pm

FYI, check out this post. NoGrey mentions using a tool called the Title Editor in Premiere. Haven't played around with it myself, but you might want to atleast look into it.

I do all my stuff frame-by-frame in Photoshop, then use the green-screen technique. Ahh, takes me back to the good old days of those green, eye-killer computer monitors...
Image
The Golden Rule of AMV's: "Render unto others as you would have them Render unto you."
User avatar
gangstaj8
 
Joined: 06 Dec 2003
Location: Oregon

Postby milkmandan » Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:22 pm

thanks gangstaj8, i'll check it out as soon as i get the chance..

gangstaj8, could you give me a detailed explanation on how to do your method? Starting from how you export each frame, how you photoshop each picture and then how you apply the green screen. Please >_<

I swear my method is all wrong, or at least slow.
Image Image
User avatar
milkmandan
 
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Location: California

Postby CHAMELEON_D_H » Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:53 pm

Firts of all I'd like to say that pianos is a genius. Now for how I think he did it:

There are 4 layers - top to bottom -
1) Girl in red - I think he used a color key to cut her out. Might be other key effect.
2) Bright face of girl - seems like extract, and playing with contrast to make it pale, and some transparecy. Another option might be luma key.
3) Book - looks like simple masking.
4)Dark Background - might be without change, hard to tell. maybe he blurred it.

the catch here is that he used the book's mask on both upper layers, thus keeping them from spilling over out of the book. Then he created a new mask to prevent the top layer from spilling over the second.

All can be done with AE. If you want to make this kinda stuff start learning it. You should ask pianos how he did all this amazing things.

I think I'll go to admire that AMV a few more times.....
Image
Before asking, THINK!!! Have you read The Guides, consulted The Wiki and watched The Corn?
User avatar
CHAMELEON_D_H
 
Joined: 23 May 2003
Location: TA Israel

Postby milkmandan » Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:02 pm

yeah seriously thats exactly how i felt when i saw the video
i was like "OMFG WTF BBQ KFC"?
i honestly though it was not an AMV, but an actual production for the anime Rozen Maiden and they just didn't "use it" cuz it wasn't good enuff.

Anyways Chameleon_d_h, i've watched Rozen Maiden very recently so here are the things that did not change.

The girl in red, the scene was just like that. very white. with her falling back and what not. nothing changed

the book is simple masking, and the dark background is was orignally like that. so not changes there.

The masking of the book and the pale face are utterly amazing though, i have the video on my phone, just so i can watch it again and again while i am out, just to admire his great-ness.

I've tried to email piano, but he lives in Japan, and it appears his english is not top notch :) So i doubt i'll be able to reach him, although it seems like he knows Zarxrax, so maybe if i got a hold of Zarxrax....(hmmmmm? :)) the greatest editor in the world has to know SOMETHING eh eh?
Image Image
User avatar
milkmandan
 
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Location: California

Postby milkmandan » Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:25 pm

anyone wanna help me discet that Rozen Maiden AMV. bit by bit, examine how Piano made such a badass video?

Starting from the very first second, with the splitting of the image? It looks like a direct copy of the Samurai 7 splitting but in actuallity its not >_<

There are so many 'good' effects in this video..

Eg, the flower petals falling down, the grid like pattern in the beginning and how the grid falls underneath the girl, the flash zoom of the grid, the 50 frame cut outs, the weird lights flying around, the red ripple transition, the book masking, the multiple clips on the bricks (amazing 00:49), the flying black feathers (also amazing), the water ripple effect from the black feather, the crazy slide transitions, the swirly red lines flying around, more swirly lines (but they are punched out this time), and MORE animated masks.

theres too much, -_- kill me now...i've got 30 years before i ever reach this level.
Image Image
User avatar
milkmandan
 
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Location: California

Postby CHAMELEON_D_H » Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:27 pm

milkmandan wrote:The girl in red, the scene was just like that. very white. with her falling back and what not. nothing changed

the book is simple masking, and the dark background is was orignally like that. so not changes there.

The masking of the book and the pale face are utterly amazing though, i have the video on my phone, just so i can watch it again and again while i am out, just to admire his great-ness.


The Girl in red was "key"ed, otherwise he couldn't have made the BG in the shot transparant. I say we ask Zarxrax......
Image
Before asking, THINK!!! Have you read The Guides, consulted The Wiki and watched The Corn?
User avatar
CHAMELEON_D_H
 
Joined: 23 May 2003
Location: TA Israel

Next

Return to Video Software Help Archive

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron