a music video maker

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mantlepicture
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2002 11:19 am
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Post by mantlepicture » Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:32 pm

bum wrote:I dont see why making the keyboard mappable is such a big deal. Vegas has just about every function mapped to a key, yet I dont bother using it because its much easier using a mouse. A keyboard may be faster, but editing is something you generaly want to do while in a relaxed state. using a mouse makes things more relaxed, due to the slower movements when using a mouse.
There are way too many functions for each thing to get its own key. Many vital functions like match frame rarely get their own key on default setups. Also, depending on what you do with the program, different people use different functions more often. You can customize Avid to be your own system. And using a mouse just gets annoying. Why move the play line 2:13 ahead when you can just type +213 and enter? Why move your mouse to the Mark In Point button when you can just push i? When you spend eight hours editing, that mouse starts to make your wrist sore. Once you are used to the keyboard, it becomes far more relaxing than the mouse, since you aren't moving your hands as much.
With vegas, theirs no need to change the workstation from audio to video with the touch of a key. Everything is right thier, integrated neatly into one completely customisable workstation. Thankfully the default layout is good enough as I've never had any need to customise it.
There is always a reason to change workstations. Example, when you are editing audio, you want the waveforms displayed. When you aren't, you don't since it takes up valuable resources. When you are editing effects, you don't need the source monitor. Instead of going through the menus to change this stuff, I just push a button. And if I want it back the way it was, I push another button. And all the workstations are fully customizable. That is why Avid is so huge. You can make the system completely your own.
Watching 3 clips togeather? That's just stupid. You'l only be able to concentrate on one at a time and will most likely miss the scene your trying to find. It's also slow and tedios, as its much easier to manualy fast forward with a media player or vdub. Or just drag the cursor timeline through vegas and watch the preview window.

Tell that to someone editing a real music video. They are usually shot with multiple cameras. You can see the wideshot, drummer, guitarist, ect. Without switching sources. Sure, grouping may not be used a lot with AMVs, but if I am going to spend a few hundred dollars, I want something that isn't just limited to AMVs.
Kinda contradicted yourself thier didnt you? Oh and you also proved you dont know what your on about. WMM has has a trim tool since version 1.
And where is this trim tool? It must be well-hidden. Also, how do you step into tracks? Where is the color correction? Where are the bins? How do you create subclips? And don't even get me started on the pathetic excuse for a title tool. Avid's is horrible(LiveType is the God of title tools), but it is lightyears above this.

And no, I didn't contradict myself. A good editor can make a decent video with anything. But Avid has more room for creativity. Why else do you think that 90% of 2004's feature-length films were edited on it? You can make an amazing movie by cutting film, but you would rather be on an Avid.

mantlepicture
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Post by mantlepicture » Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:44 pm

Scintilla wrote: I think this is the core of the problem right here.

I'm getting the distinct impression that mantlepicture is mostly talking about editing from a professional standpoint (note emphasis on speed and efficiency in the editing process, among other things), while bum and the others who have been responding are mostly talking about it from a hobby standpoint, and the statement I bolded shows up the difference pretty clearly (I'm sure that relaxing while editing is not a very good way to meet a deadline).

And the discrepancy is resulting in confusion and other bad stuff.

So can we please just give it a rest?
You bring up a very good point. I've tried (and apparently failed) to get across the fact that I am speaking from a professional standpoint("professional editors need..."). Like I said, try all the programs out before buying them. Find what suits you. If you are just doing it as a hobby, get Premeire or Vegas, or even Pinnacle(though I haven't tested it yet). If you are getting into editing with the intention of making a career out of it, start with Avid. It is hard to learn, but it's better to form habits with it since that is what you will work with in the industry(or Final Cut, but it's pretty much the same idea).

AMVs, generally, are very simplistic and easy to make*. You can do them with WMM if you want. But if you want something that will grow with you as you get more experience, you want a higher end program(at least Premeire or Vegas).

*To make myself clear, I mean the technical aspects. Generally, it's cuts only with maybe a few dissolves. Anyone can piece together an AMV(not necessarily a good one). But when you decide you want to do nesting, color correction, 3D effects, grouping, matting, etc., WMM(and Premeire for a few of those things) will laugh at you.

Again, use each of the programs and decide what works best for you. You are the one who will be spending countless hours on it, so go with what makes you comfortable. I have taken many advanced editing courses, so it probably is a little unfair for me to expect everyone to be comfortable with Avid. But that is the most important part: find something that does what you need it to do and makes you feel comfortable doing it.

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Kalium
Sir Bugsalot
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 11:17 pm
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Post by Kalium » Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:44 pm

mantlepicture wrote:Why else do you think that 90% of 2004's feature-length films were edited on it?
Popularity doesn't make it good. A lot of things are popular (MS Office, Internet Exploitme, etc.). That doesn't make them good.

mantlepicture
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Post by mantlepicture » Fri Jan 21, 2005 1:09 am

[quote="Kalium]
Popularity doesn't make it good. A lot of things are popular (MS Office, Internet Exploitme, etc.). That doesn't make them good.[/quote]

Yes, but people don't pay $250 an hour to use IE. People who are knowledgable(like professionals are with editing) typically shy away from IE. Or at least they know there is better out there.

Professional editors go with what works best. And they typically choose Avid.

It's true that popularity doesn't make something good. And Premeire is a lot more popular than Avid. But if something is popular among professionals, that does make it good. Your analogy is flawed. As expensive as editing is, professionals do not choose inferior products. In fact, the main reason most post-production houses use Windows over Mac is because Windows gets the new versions of Avid several months before Mac does. And that means a lot, especially with Avid Xpress HD coming out soon.

mantlepicture
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Post by mantlepicture » Fri Jan 21, 2005 1:17 am

Kalium, you live close to a lot of post-production houses. The biggest in Michigan is GTN(it's the biggest in the midwest, and is on the verge of being the biggest in the US), which is in the Southfield area. Call them up sometime and ask what they use. They will tell you straight up: Avid(not Xpress Pro; they use Avid Adreneline, which is far too expensive for consumer use. But it's Avid nonetheless). Every car commercial you seen is done there. Car commercials may not seem like much, but they are. Some commercials are made before the car is. How do you show a car driving down a road without having the car? With Avid and hours of editing. Also, quite a few motion pictures are made there, as well as quite a few videos. Surely you don't think such a high-profile place is wrong in their choice of programs.

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bum
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Post by bum » Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:42 am

mantlepicture wrote: Car commercials may not seem like much, but they are. Some commercials are made before the car is. How do you show a car driving down a road without having the car? With Avid and hours of editing.
So your saying that the ONLY way to do that kind of stuff is with avid? Man, your worse than me when I used to pimp vegas excesively.

mantlepicture
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Post by mantlepicture » Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:40 am

bum wrote:
mantlepicture wrote: Car commercials may not seem like much, but they are. Some commercials are made before the car is. How do you show a car driving down a road without having the car? With Avid and hours of editing.
So your saying that the ONLY way to do that kind of stuff is with avid? Man, your worse than me when I used to pimp vegas excesively.
No, but they are the best way, which is why the professionals use it. Pay attention.

navs92
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Post by navs92 » Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:37 pm

so ...i don't want avid then...
just can't be assed to put it in

mantlepicture
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Post by mantlepicture » Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:48 pm

navs92 wrote:so ...i don't want avid then...
Not until you learn what you're doing.

navs92
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Post by navs92 » Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:18 pm

yeh i found a good way to do it make a music vid out of normal windows movie maker then go to movie and add all the stuff in like captions and what still it is
just can't be assed to put it in

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