Weird idea for getting 23.97 fps

The old Video Software Help forum, left visible as an archive.

Weird idea for getting 23.97 fps

Postby Zarxrax » Sat Sep 28, 2002 9:44 pm

As everyone knows, Premiere is incapable of outputting to 23.976 fps for whatever reason. Now I just happened to have an idea that could possibly let us get around that. This is just theory at the moment, I havent actually done any testing or whatnot.
Now, lets suppose you are editing some 23.976 fps footage, and you got your project settings set for 23.98 fps. Now you continue and finish your video like this, until its time to export. Now, when you go to export, instead of exporting to 23.98 fps, what if you were to export at 29.97 fps?
I am assuming that premiere would simply render your video as if it were 23.98 fps, but duplicate every 5th frame to get it to 29.97. Now this could be run through decomb in order to remove the duplicates, leaving you with a 23.976 fps video stream.
Does this sound right or what? The only problem I can forsee is the possibility that Premiere might calculate your keyframes and stuff according to a 29.97fps timebase, which could make it choppy after you use decomb. However I doubt it would do this, since that should be effected by your project settings, not your export settings, correct? I really hope I'm onto something here...
User avatar
Zarxrax
 
Joined: 01 Apr 2001
Location: Concord, NC

Postby Zarxrax » Sat Sep 28, 2002 9:46 pm

argh... and I had to make a typo in the subject line :roll:
User avatar
Zarxrax
 
Joined: 01 Apr 2001
Location: Concord, NC

Postby TokyoU15 » Sat Sep 28, 2002 11:07 pm

Simply running it through Decomb wont work, you have to Telecine your footage to make it 23.976

All ya have to do is use the Telecine() command. (I think that's it, I can't remember off the top of my head)
<a href="http://www.senpaiproductions.net">Image</a>
<a href="http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members/members_myprofile.php?user_id=326">View My Profile</a>
The Thrill of The Kill Is Alive and Well!
User avatar
TokyoU15
 
Joined: 05 Feb 2001

Postby klinky » Sat Sep 28, 2002 11:28 pm

What I need clearing up is why would we want it to go to 23.98 ?

Is that TRUE FILM rate? I always thought the 23.98 was a by-product of converting the 24fps to 29.97, but slowing the 24fps down by %1, then telecining up to 29.97. Wouldn't we want the video to be running @ 24fps?
Plus does it really matter with music videos if we run @ 24fps or 23.98fps as any previews you do will look like your finished product, adjusting the frame rate afterwards could screw up synching. You should also be able to setup Premiere to interperet footage as 24fps instead of 23.98 and just edit on a 24fps timebase.

I really don't like the idea of doing any post-production frame rate manipulation as the chance of screw up is high and it could podentially ruin your video. It'd be better to just figure out away to take care of it before you make your video.


~klinky
User avatar
klinky
 
Joined: 23 Jul 2001
Location: Cookie College...

Postby MamoruArmitage » Sat Sep 28, 2002 11:46 pm

*is not sure why it matters*
Chou Ryuuen, of the Fushigi Yuugi Cabal

"E Nomine Patres et Filii et Spiritu Sancti!"

Eriol861: dan, what have i told you about bestiality?
Eriol861: REMEMBER THE CONDOM
God Saffron: ...
Eriol861: DON'T GET MAD PIKACHU DISEASE OR SOME SHIT

INNERVISION STUDIOS
User avatar
MamoruArmitage
 
Joined: 28 Jul 2002
Location: Just stuck, hollow and alone, and the fault is my own, and the fault is my own...

Postby TokyoU15 » Sun Sep 29, 2002 12:13 am

ARG, I fucked up, Don't telecine. Telecine is when you add frames, you have to IVTC your footage! ggr, my mistake. But correct me if i'm wrong, but IVTC only converts the footage back to film framerate which is 24fps. I'm not sure about thgat though.
<a href="http://www.senpaiproductions.net">Image</a>
<a href="http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members/members_myprofile.php?user_id=326">View My Profile</a>
The Thrill of The Kill Is Alive and Well!
User avatar
TokyoU15
 
Joined: 05 Feb 2001

Postby Mask of Destiny » Sun Sep 29, 2002 12:19 am

klinky wrote:Is that TRUE FILM rate? I always thought the 23.98 was a by-product of converting the 24fps to 29.97, but slowing the 24fps down by %1, then telecining up to 29.97. Wouldn't we want the video to be running @ 24fps?


You are correct. All video frame rates were integers until the advent of color television. Film predates color television and as such has a integral frame rate.
Mask of Destiny
 
Joined: 11 Aug 2002

Postby RadicalEd0 » Sun Sep 29, 2002 12:30 am

No offense but am I the only one here that knew what zarxrax was saying? :?

thats a brilliant idea, I've no clue if it would work though
NMEAMV: PENIS
NMEAMV: IN
NMEAMV: YO
NMEAMV: MIXED
NMEAMV: DRINK
User avatar
RadicalEd0
 
Joined: 24 Jun 2002

Postby TokyoU15 » Sun Sep 29, 2002 12:33 am

enlighten us oh great one? Go eat a co.....naw. Not worth the trouble.
<a href="http://www.senpaiproductions.net">Image</a>
<a href="http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members/members_myprofile.php?user_id=326">View My Profile</a>
The Thrill of The Kill Is Alive and Well!
User avatar
TokyoU15
 
Joined: 05 Feb 2001

Postby RadicalEd0 » Sun Sep 29, 2002 12:51 am

hmm.. nah, now that i reread klinky and mask of destiny had their facts straight :P
NMEAMV: PENIS
NMEAMV: IN
NMEAMV: YO
NMEAMV: MIXED
NMEAMV: DRINK
User avatar
RadicalEd0
 
Joined: 24 Jun 2002

Postby RadicalEd0 » Sun Sep 29, 2002 12:52 am

i am yer god! bow down to me! >:O

o er.. :oops: /me slinks back into way off topic forum
NMEAMV: PENIS
NMEAMV: IN
NMEAMV: YO
NMEAMV: MIXED
NMEAMV: DRINK
User avatar
RadicalEd0
 
Joined: 24 Jun 2002

Postby klinky » Sun Sep 29, 2002 1:07 am

Image

:D :D

~klinky
User avatar
klinky
 
Joined: 23 Jul 2001
Location: Cookie College...

Postby RadicalEd0 » Sun Sep 29, 2002 1:09 am

klinky i'd say I love you but you're far too manly :O

erm.. ok, enuff way off topic emulation, back to doom9ie serious videoie conversationie

not to mention
I AM MOOSE EAT ME! >:O
NMEAMV: PENIS
NMEAMV: IN
NMEAMV: YO
NMEAMV: MIXED
NMEAMV: DRINK
User avatar
RadicalEd0
 
Joined: 24 Jun 2002

Postby Zarxrax » Sun Sep 29, 2002 2:26 am

Ok klinky, we dont WANT it to be 23.98 fps, we want it to be 23.976 fps! 23.976fps is the correct fps for ntcs film. 23.98 is a gay biproduct of using Adobe Premiere. In other words, 23.976 is a STANDARD... 23.98 is... some weird crap. When you perform IVTC on a 29.97fps video stream, this results in a 23.976fps video stream.
Now, why do I give a damn if its 23.98fps or 23.976? Well... cause 23.976 is the standard! MPEG-4 based DVD players will be available soon, and I'm sure they will have some sort of specification to the framerate your video must be at. It would more than likely support both 23.976 and 29.97 fps, just like a normal dvd player reads. If you would try to feed it some stream at 15fps, or 60fps, or 42.5234433 fps, or even 23.98fps it would probably spit it back up.
I just like to prepare for this...
That... and it just KILLS me to know that something is blatantly WRONG :p
User avatar
Zarxrax
 
Joined: 01 Apr 2001
Location: Concord, NC

Postby Zarxrax » Sun Sep 29, 2002 2:51 am

Ok, I just ran a test on a 20 second long section of a video I'm working on, and it seemed my method worked perfectly! I compared the 23.98fps output from premiere with the 23.976fps output i got from avisynth, and they were frame-for-frame similar, except the 23.98 fps stream had a single extra frame right at the end (as it should). From now on, this is how I'll be exporting my videos. No more gay 23.98fps for me!
User avatar
Zarxrax
 
Joined: 01 Apr 2001
Location: Concord, NC

Next

Return to Video Software Help Archive

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest