Guides and AMVapp Public Alpha/Beta Test

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Postby AbsoluteDestiny » Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:42 am

p.s. : I think the xvid guide is the more compelete as I've already made revisions to that.
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Postby WilLoW :--) » Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:00 am

Ok. We'll probably have a french translation of the old guides, including the new XviD encoding guide, as the one on the old guides is completely obsolete.
I think other things in the old guides are still "true", although things like DVD2AVI have changed to DGIndex... so well, french creators (that do not speak english) will use the old AMVApp as long as we do not start translating the new guides :D ... no specific problem with that ?

(a bit OT here but it is still about the large differences that might exist between the old and new guides. In other words, I hope all previous techniques are not obsolete)
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Postby AbsoluteDestiny » Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:05 am

Well.. the difficulty is that theold guides are all avisynth 2.0x and the new is 2.5 ...

including dgindex and dgdecode.dll

So... dunno really, we'll see :)
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Postby mckeed » Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:01 pm

In the beta gudie there is a typo:
http://www.animemusicvideos.org/guides/ ... etb2a.html

well luckily I've included a little helper function in the AMVapp to help you - add this cpmmand to the end of your avisynth script in VirtualDubMod and press F5:
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Postby downwithpants » Thu Jun 24, 2004 12:52 am

another little typo but it makes it confusing.
http://www.animemusicvideos.org/guides/ ... etb2a.html
Temporal Scanline Blending, sentence 2.
However, as the image being sampled is changes this causes the field being sampled to blend into the next image




also, the dv-avi export from wmm2 can be really nasty.

first, unlike the wmv export, the avi export messes up framerate i think. (it turned my 5:08 project into a 4:50 avi, i had to redo the timing in the project and speed the audio).

second, a lot of wmm2 users report really ugly video quality at parts. i've noticed it can be bad at transitions, even straight cuts. (it was by luck that my last project produced a clear looking avi, past projects have failed to do so. also a few wmm2 users seem to be able to produce clean looking avis, but most don't.

third, the directshowsource command won't work on the dv-avi wmm produces. the problem is that wmm produces dv type-1, which combines audio video in one stream or something. avisynth doesn't support dv type-1, but supports dv type-2, where the audio and video are separated into two streams and fortunately there are free dv type-1 to dv type-2 converters available online, like http://www.videohelp.com/tools?tool=195

i really don't know what's goin on with the first two problems so if you have an explanation or solution for us, could you tell us? otherwise post a warning that dv-avi doesn't always give (relatively) great results.
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Postby billy_wires » Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:02 am

Might be a typo (or a use of the English language I've never heard :wink: ):

http://www.animemusicvideos.org/guides/avtechbeta/avspostqual.html

Guide wrote:Admittedly the source for Utena isn't particularly pretty in of itself but this is simple exaggerated by poor analogue transfers and low bitrates

Did you mean simply here?
(Above the first Utena picture)
Guide wrote:- one with lots of detail like this one, another with not so much detail but obvious mpeg noise and maybe a thrid for good

(Under the red picture after the smoothing section)
Guide wrote:If you overblen a source

(The first line in Colour Banding)

Those are all on the same page. Just a few typos, nothing major here.
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Postby AbsoluteDestiny » Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:10 am

downwithpants wrote:also, the dv-avi export from wmm2 can be really nasty.

first, unlike the wmv export, the avi export messes up framerate i think.


Well it forces the framerate to 29.97fps as that is what DV requires.

downwithpants wrote:second, a lot of wmm2 users report really ugly video quality at parts. i've noticed it can be bad at transitions, even straight cuts. (it was by luck that my last project produced a clear looking avi, past projects have failed to do so. also a few wmm2 users seem to be able to produce clean looking avis, but most don't.


I don't see how this could be a problem with DV export... but I've no used it so I can't say.

downwithpants wrote:third, the directshowsource command won't work on the dv-avi wmm produces.


Sure it will... I have a wmm2 produced dv file right here and directshowsource is the way microsoft dv has to be played back. I could convert the DV type but it's not necessary.

downwithpants wrote: otherwise post a warning that dv-avi doesn't always give (relatively) great results.


Well it's the first I've heard of the picture quality being affected with DV export. A lot of the wmm2 users I talked to said this was the only way to get reliably good quality, so I'm going to need some more opinions on this I'm afraid.
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Postby AbsoluteDestiny » Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:12 am

@billy

yeah sorry I've already fixed that page, it just hasn't been updated yet. Sorry about that.
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Postby downwithpants » Thu Jun 24, 2004 11:18 am

AbsoluteDestiny wrote:
downwithpants wrote:also, the dv-avi export from wmm2 can be really nasty.

first, unlike the wmv export, the avi export messes up framerate i think.


Well it forces the framerate to 29.97fps as that is what DV requires.

Arigatomyna wrote:The framerate is not variable, so if you've used any special effects to change the speed of your clips (slow down by half, speed up, etc) they will all get crushed into 30fps and the audio will be effected the same.
http://www.animemusicvideos.org/phpBB/v ... 865#322865

so it will mess up your timing if you use the 'speed up' or 'slow down' effects (which would explain the timing problem in my project).


AbsoluteDestiny wrote:
downwithpants wrote:third, the directshowsource command won't work on the dv-avi wmm produces.

Sure it will... I have a wmm2 produced dv file right here and directshowsource is the way microsoft dv has to be played back. I could convert the DV type but it's not necessary.

hmm, doesn't work on mine for some reason. maybe it's just my comp or version of avisynth


AbsoluteDestiny wrote:
downwithpants wrote: otherwise post a warning that dv-avi doesn't always give (relatively) great results.

Well it's the first I've heard of the picture quality being affected with DV export. A lot of the wmm2 users I talked to said this was the only way to get reliably good quality, so I'm going to need some more opinions on this I'm afraid.

Arigatomyna wrote:Another option would be to produce the video using the dv avi format, which usually works even if your project is super-complicated. The only problem is it tends to cause nasty skips and breaks in the audio and jumbles the fades until it just looks like your computer is dying on playback.
http://www.animemusicvideos.org/phpBB/v ... 328#534328
gooner wrote:MM1 & 2 giving me jip when i save to dv-avi. when i use short clips trimmed or otherwise in close sucession, as they are timed to music, the first frame of the clip appears at the end again, and the sound jumps on alot of clips that are butted up together (no transitions). If i have faded the clips it doesn't seem to happen, And effects applied to a clip seem to promote this problem- ie. brightness increase, speed decrease etc.
Previewed movie in MM is fine, then DV-AVi is saved. If i now watch this AVI, it has these Rogue frames in it, and the sound joining problem on clip changes.
http://www.windowsmoviemakers.net/Forum ... ostID=3221
in response
PapaJohn wrote:Hi Gooner,

It seems that a number of people are wrestling with issues like you are seeing, and not all of them have easy answers.... or are resolvable.

But they seem system specific.... and everyone's system is different.
http://www.windowsmoviemakers.net/Forum ... ostID=3221
Rubystars1000 wrote:Well that method did save it as an AVI, but the audio is is ruined and the video is jerky when I save it that way.
http://www.animemusicvideos.org/phpBB/v ... 124#462124
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Postby billy_wires » Thu Jun 24, 2004 12:15 pm

AbsoluteDestiny wrote:@billy

yeah sorry I've already fixed that page, it just hasn't been updated yet. Sorry about that.

What are you sorry about? Spelling errors don't bug me, I just thought I'd point them out. :wink:
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Postby Scintilla » Thu Jun 24, 2004 12:30 pm

I'd still like to see an indication in the aspect ratios section that any footage coming into WMM should be resized to a square pixel aspect ratio (720x480-->640x480 for 4:3, 960x480-->848x480 for 16:9).

... except that I can only speak based on my own experiences with WMM1 (haven't gotten WMM2), in which my 352x240 footage was letterboxed by WMM, with the result that it looked quite ugly when I tried to export it at a normal 4:3 aspect ratio. Not having WMM2, I can't be exactly sure that it does the same thing (though I would certainly expect it).

I do know that WMM2 resizes 640x480 footage up to 720x480 perfectly for DV AVI export, so there's no reason to believe that other resolutions wouldn't be similarly resized (letterboxing if necessary to retain the image aspect ratio, which isn't what we want when working with 720x480 NTSC footage).
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Postby Scintilla » Thu Jun 24, 2004 12:34 pm

Scintilla wrote: (720x480-->640x480 for 4:3, <b>960x480-->848x480 for 16:9</b>)

Check that. If I'm right about this letterboxing thing, WMM would letterbox 848x480 footage to 848x636, but it can't export at a greater vertical resolution than 480 anyway... so incoming 16:9 footage should probably be 640x352 (352 instead of 360 for to keep the codecs happy later on).
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Postby AbsoluteDestiny » Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:21 pm

People are really going to just have to tell me stuff for wmm because I have no means of finding out for myself as I use windows 2k.

Any and all insight is appreciated.
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Postby Tab. » Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:27 pm

Theoretically, being on winXP, I could find out about WMM. But like, effort... motivation.. laziness... oahhhl;
I'll look into it.
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Postby VegettoEX » Thu Jun 24, 2004 6:17 pm

Major problems with VirtualDub. VirtualDubMod won't even open. Downloaded regular VirtualDub to try and open the AVS scripts. Get this error in both instances.

<B>Runtime Error!

Program C:\VirtualDubLocationHere

This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual way. Please contact the application's support team for more information.</B>

Old AMVapp was uninstalled. Rebooted. Installed new one. Rebooted. Made new D2V. Opened in VDub. Got errors. The only thing in the script is just the MPEG2Source, at this point.

Help ;_;
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