Some questions about getting my system to run Adobe Premiere

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Postby Keeper of Hellfire » Sat Nov 11, 2006 11:02 am

I agree with Willen that a CPU upgrade is more important than upgrading the graphics card, but if you decide to upgrade the graphics card, prefer one that's listed at Adobe's page. Be carefull with the CPU, there exist two versions of the 2.8 GHz P4 for socket 478 - with 533 MHz FSB and 800 MHz FSB. You can only use the 533 MHz Version.
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Postby Keeper of Hellfire » Sat Nov 11, 2006 11:38 am

Sorry for the doublepost, but I have something to add: The chances are very low that you find a 4x-AGP card with one of the recommended chipsets except the ATI 9800, which has only conditional support. I don't think that the possible speed increase is worth the money.
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Postby Angeteen » Sat Nov 11, 2006 12:44 pm

I can understand the thing about the memory and it being faster and all, however, I went to newegg, and did some comparison of the features between the x800 and the x1600. Here is what I found out as far as the features were converned.

x800

SmartShader HD
SmoothVision HD
3Dc
HyperZ HD
VideoShader HD


X1600

CATALYST Software Drivers
12 Pixel Pipelines Architecture
8 Vertex Shader
SMARTSHADER Technology
VIDEOSHADER Technology
SMOOTHVISION Technology
HYPER Z III+ Technology
Dual Display Support
Avivo


Looking at it from this standpoint, I think that while the x1600 is a little slower, the performace it boasts should be better, right? Also, as for the memory, I might as well go with a 512MB ($180) since a 256MB costs $165. However, tell me, while the 800 is centered around high defintion, because of the system I'm using, it would be unable to make use of that high definiton, wouldn't it? Therefore wouldn't the x1600 be a better choice?

Also, since I'm inexperienced with reading the specs of graphics cards, the x1600 should have a better all-around quality compared to the x800, right, or am I misreading. If the performace is better, well, I think I can do with a *little* waiting.

As for the CPU upgrade, yeah, that's first on my list. I'm going from 1.80ghz to 2.80ghz. Here's the chip I plan on getting.

http://www.starmicro.net/detail.aspx?ID=118
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Postby Kariudo » Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:59 pm

found some info somewhere out there, and although it's aimed at mobile video cards (for laptops) I still find it relevant in this discussion.
some guy on some site wrote:1.Is an ATI Radon X1400 256MB better than an ATI Radeon X700 128MB?
This is a very common train of thought – more video memory must mean better performance. This is not true – the video card itself matters more than the memory it has.
In this case, the X700 is the faster card, even though it has half the video memory. The reason for this is fairly simple – the X1400, although it has 256MB of memory, cannot use all of it effectively.
Here's a primitive example. An office worker can use a maximum of three computers at a time. If he is given an additional three comptuers, is he any more productive? No, because he can only use three of them to begin with. The extra three do nothing.


as for the techs that the cards have, this is where newegg fails...they don't explain what the different techs do (which I why I look at tigerdirect too)
x800
x1600 (it has a lot of the same things that the x800 does)

I just realized that the x800 card is pci-e x16 instead of AGP 4/8x...and that the agp version is $140 but if you want to be 100% sure that it'l work with everything that APP 2.0 offers, then it's probably the way to go
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Postby Angeteen » Sat Nov 11, 2006 7:53 pm

x1600 (it has a lot of the same things that the x800 does)


*thinks*

Therefore it doesn't matter which I get, because both will work just as good, right? As for the extra 512MB memory, yeah, the reason I'm going with it is because the price difference is less than $20, so I might as well go with it. Still, now that I think of it, what is the difference between, say, SMOOTHVISION Technology, SMOOTHVISION HD? I mean, comparing the two, the only difference is that one has technology after it and the other HD after it (high definiton I guess).

Also, as for the AGP part, yeah, that is pretty important to me. I tend to shy away from PCIs due to that they are slower, and when in use, you have to worry about bottlenecks (might as well go with AGP so as to get the full benefit of the card). Either way, weather X800 or X1600, even if they were both at only 256MB, they are both just as likely too do good either way, right?

Also I noticed something else worth pointing out. Under the 3D API listing, it listed the X1600 as OpenGL 2.0, and for the X800 as OpenGL. Hmm...openGl? Isn't that some sort of glide wrapper or something? Is there any benefit to it? So which is the better part (more important)? Techology/HD or OpenGL/OpenGL 2.0? Man my head hurts. I think I'll check out those tigerdirect links you posted.
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Postby Kariudo » Sat Nov 11, 2006 8:04 pm

not sure about openGL

but although AGP is faster than PCI, PCI-E (pci-express) is even faster than AGP.

the thing is, that you can't just put whatever you want into your motherboard...it has to have the appropriate slot for the interface.

if you could take and post a pic (upload it to www.imageshack.us) someone could tell you what your motherboard has (if you don't already know)

as far as the HD on the end of those techs...it just means that they are capable of doing what they do at higher resolutions (at least that's what I got from reading the info on tigerdirect)
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Postby Kariudo » Sat Nov 11, 2006 8:27 pm

info on openGL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenGL

from the sound of it...OpenGL2.0 vs OpenGL shouldn't be much of a concern (unless somethig actually uses the additions that openGL2 offers)
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Postby Angeteen » Sat Nov 11, 2006 9:37 pm

This should list all the information needed about my system.

http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/s ... tm#1101572

Also, I read the stuff on tigerdirect, and no, couldn't make any use out of it. As far as I saw things it was saying "this does this and that does that." Not exactly helpful I'm afraid. :P Can you translate what it's saying?
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Postby Kariudo » Sat Nov 11, 2006 10:04 pm

yep, you have AGP 4x (which means that you should get a 4x/8x card)

alright...I'll try to translate...
3Dc: makes it so that the 3-d images don't use as much memory
Smoothvision: makes the images (particularly the lines) less jagged, and makes the image sharper (generally increases visual quality)
Fullstream: uses resources (like the GDDR) to make streaming video look better
Catalyst: lets you customize video card options
SmartShader: makes game graphics look more lifelike
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Postby Angeteen » Sun Nov 12, 2006 12:08 am

LOL! Informative and interesting, but not quite what I meant. Here; I'll post the information here so as to make things easier.


X800

Radeon X800 GTO
The Radeon X800 graphics technology set a new standard in graphics performance and visual realism. With up to 16 pipelines, higher clock speeds and breakthrough image enhancement technology, Radeon X800 Graphics Technology introduced a whole new gaming category called High-Definition Gaming.

3Dc™
3Dc is an exciting new compression technology designed to bring out fine details in games while minimizing memory usage. It is the first compression technique optimized to work with normal maps, which allow fine per-pixel control over how light reflects from a textured surface. With up to 4:1 compression possible, this means game designers can now include up to 4x the detail without changing the amount of graphics memory required and without impacting performance.

SMOOTHVISION™ HD
SMOOTHVISION HD is a set of technologies designed to enhance the image quality of any game using advanced, high-performance filtering technology. Anti-aliasing removes the distracting jagged edges that can occur on the outlines of 3D objects, and Anisotropic Filtering sharpens blurry textures and retains the fine details in the image.

DirectX 9.0C Technology
DirectX 9.0c improves the graphics, security, and performance of your operating system. Download and install this update for your Windows 98, Windows ME, Windows 2000, Windows Server 2003, or Windows XP-based system.

FULLSTREAM™
The latest advancement in video processing technology, is a hardware accelerated filtering method that improves the performance and visual quality of streaming video playback.

CATALYST™
ATI’s all-new CATALYST™ Control Center goes far beyond traditional driver configuration software—it’s a feature-rich and stable 3D acceleration control application that puts you in complete command of your ATI visual processing unit

PCI Express Support
PCI Express is a new Intel bus architecture that doubles the bandwidth of the AGP 8X bus, delivering over 4 GB per second in both upstream and downstream data transfers.


Features

VIDEOSHADER™ HD
VIDEOSHADER HD is a key feature of the video processing engine that allows it to tap into the power of the programmable pixel shader units of the RADEON X800 3D core. This allows shaders to be used to accelerate many different video processing tasks, including noise removal (VIDEOSOAP), de-blocking (FULLSTREAM), adaptive de-interlacing, frame rate conversion, color space conversion, and much more. VIDEOSHADER HD also provides the flexibility required to support all of the latest video formats, including MPEG1/2/4, Real, DivX, and WMV9.
VIDEOSOAP™
VideoSoap™ provides advanced filtering to reduce speckling, improve sharpness and smooth blurry motion to provide high quality personal video recordings
3Dc™
3Dc is an exciting new compression technology designed to bring out fine details in games while minimizing memory usage. It is the first compression technique optimized to work with normal maps, which allow fine per-pixel control over how light reflects from a textured surface. With up to 4:1 compression possible, this means game designers can now include up to 4x the detail without changing the amount of graphics memory required and without impacting performance.
HyperZ™ Technology
ATI's HYPER-Z technology decreases the amount of information sent to the frame buffer, easing memory bandwidth limitations and allowing for ultra-high resolutions, full screen 3D acceleration in true color.


x1600

THE GAME IS ON!
Great Digital Entertainment & 3D Graphics
The Radeon® X1600 is designed to deliver outstanding entertainment and 3D graphics through its unique ultra-threaded core architecture and ATI’s Avivo™ video and display technology. The Radeon X1600 is a perfect way to connect your PC and consumer electronic devices together for an ideal home entertainment and gaming system.

CROSSFIRE™
Designed from the ground up with GPU sharing in mind, the Radeon X1600 series allows you to get incredible gaming performance by adding a Radeon X1600 Crossfire Edition graphics card for ultra fast performance that works with all games, all the time.

AVIVO™
Avivo™ redefines the ultimate visual experience for today’s PCs, and sets the stage for tomorrow’s exciting possibilities. Check your board for specific support of Avivo™ features. Avivo™ is a technology platform that includes a broad set of capabilities offered by ATI products. Full enablement of some Avivo™ capabilities may require complementary products.

SMARTSHADER™
A new technology developed by ATI, represents a new generation of visual effects for your personal computer. With SMARTSHADER™, game developers will be able to create immersive, life-like worlds by modelling the surface and material qualities of 3D objects with an unparalleled level of realism.

SMOOTHVISION™
Supports a High-Performance anti-aliasing mode and a High-Quality anti-aliasing mode. Both of these modes give users the ability to choose between 2x, 3x, 4x, 5x, and 6x sampling, allowing for a total of 10 different anti-aliasing settings.

CATALYST™
ATI’s all-new CATALYST™ Control Center goes far beyond traditional driver configuration software—it’s a feature-rich and stable 3D acceleration control application that puts you in complete command of your ATI visual processing unit


Features
CineFX Engine
Powers cinematic effects beyond imagination. With advanced vertex and pixel shader capabilities, stunning and complex special effects are possible. In addition, increased horsepower delivers faster and smoother gameplay.
AGP 8X
Provides double the bandwidth of AGP 4X—2.1GB/sec. vs. 1.1BG/sec. AGP 8X enables more complex models and detailed textures, creating richer and more lifelike environments. Uninterrupted data flow allows for smoother video streaming and faster, more seamless gameplay.

nView Multi-display Technology
The nView hardware and software technology combination delivers maximum flexibility for multi-display options, and provides unprecedented end-user control of the desktop experience. nVidia GPUs are enabled to support multi-displays, but graphics cards vary.

DVI Support
Able to drive the industry's largest and highest resolution flat-panel displays with up to 1600x1200 resolution


There. As I said, this all sounds like a bunch of gibber-jabber, so it's kind of hard to figure out which is the best. Out of what hs been given what is the bottom line of both these cards? In other words, my goal isn't for gameplay, but instead, to make a desent AMV. Therefore, sice that is the case, then wouldn't either card be equally well off, or what? If so, then in that case, what of the X1600?

Also, wouldn't SMARTSHADER Technology, be slightly behind SMARTSHADER HD, or are they both relatively good, the only difference is, they do different things depending on what the user has in mind? In that case, wouldn't SMARTSHADER Technology be just what I need in order to make a decent AMV. Also, while I'm on a roll, what the heck is HyperZ?
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Postby Angeteen » Sun Nov 12, 2006 3:10 am

This just occured to me; since the processor is going to be a little slow, that means the card is needs to be a little quick to make up for it. However, out of curiosity, will my system even be able to make any actual use out of the card's high defintion?
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Postby Keeper of Hellfire » Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:23 am

Seems like you didn't understand the sense of my last post. A card that is specified for AGP 8x only will not work in an AGP 4x slot. It has to be specified for both modes to work in your motherboard. The reason for this is that, beside the speed difference, AGP 4x works with a voltage of 1.5V while AGP 8x uses only 0.8V.

So the X800 AGP will work:
ATI wrote:Intel Pentium 4/III, AMD Athlon 64/7K/Athlon XP with AGP 8X (0.8v), 4X (1.5V) or universal AGP 3.0 bus configuration (8X/4X)...
That I posted you'll find no AGP 4x compatible card with this chip is the fault of the German ATI site, they list only the AGP 8x mode. :roll:

The X1600 will probably not work:
ATI wrote: AGP 8x configurations also supported with AGP-PCI-E external bridge chip
In adition, though it may be compatible with the X800 series, it's not on Adobe's list. So the acceleration isn't guarantied.

And yes, the CPU that you linked to is the right one.
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Postby Kariudo » Sun Nov 12, 2006 1:31 pm

Angeteen wrote:This just occured to me; since the processor is going to be a little slow, that means the card is needs to be a little quick to make up for it. However, out of curiosity, will my system even be able to make any actual use out of the card's high defintion?


that's not the way it works. a faster GPU does not compensate for a slower CPU.

as for the HD question, it depends on your monitor. If your monitor supports a resolution of 2048×1536 you should see a difference (perhaps better than another video card, but definately better than the same monitor at 800x600)

if you have a crt you'l have a better chance of getting that high resolution (as opposed to an LCD monitor...unless you have a very large, and expensive, model)
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Postby Angeteen » Sun Nov 12, 2006 2:04 pm

Seems like you didn't understand the sense of my last post. A card that is specified for AGP 8x only will not work in an AGP 4x slot.


*blinks*

Huh? Oh, yeah, I checked the list, and mine is a 4x. Still, looking at the website, the card they offer supports both, so I'm safe and in the clear. Heh! Looks like I learned something new that will save me from future headaches. Thanks!

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product. ... id=4858088



as for the HD question, it depends on your monitor. If your monitor supports a resolution of 2048×1536 you should see a difference (perhaps better than another video card, but definately better than the same monitor at 800x600)


I'm not a quality hog, so having something slight degraded isn't so bad. Besides; for a 640x480, 20MB per minute is all that it should ever be. Also, after some forthought, I thought of switching over to the X800. Simply put; how is this a better card? Also, when looking at it, I noticed that this isn't a x800, but instead, a X800 GTO. What? Are they the same thing, or if different, then is this a newer version of the x800?
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Postby Angeteen » Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:40 pm

I'm sorry is this is detouring slightly from the discussion at hand, but rather than creating a new thread, I need to ask a quick question; what is a ATI All In Wonder X800GTO? Is this somehow a step up from the X800 GT? The reason I ask this is because if this is sort of like a swiss army knife, wouldn't this be a bit better off, or would I be better suited for just the X800GTO?
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