Contentless HD discs?

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Contentless HD discs?

Postby BasharOfTheAges » Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:04 pm

So, i recently heard from someone that needed to know the official specs for HD-DVD and Blueray for a job that the plan for both systems (and the requirement for 3rd party affiliates that want to use the logos of said brands) is to start releasing discs that don't actually have content on them, but, rather, download that video from a network like an on-demand video service - further cementing the idea that the disc's content is not owned by the buyer.

Anyone not under contractual obligations to not divulge this information that is privy to it want to confirm/deny and elaborate?
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Postby Kalium » Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:09 pm

I don't know anything, but it sounds very plausible, and is very much the sort of thing the MPAA and their component studios would pull.
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Postby trythil » Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:32 pm

Contentless HD discs


That's redundant.
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Postby post-it » Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:44 pm

.. unless the disc only has the URL on it and the URL is encrypted with a password, authentication and AND the purchasers Verification Code giving someone a Tracking Number to verify that only one person was able to download it to just one location -- I fail to see what good it would do to have such a system!
1) what if your download was corrupted? then your screwed!
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Postby Kariudo » Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:58 pm

sounds like a pain, wonder how they're gonna cater to the people who don't have high-speed internet if this happens.

Somehow I don't think waiting 24+ hours to download a movie is gonna fly with that crowd
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Postby BasharOfTheAges » Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:42 pm

Kariudo wrote:sounds like a pain, wonder how they're gonna cater to the people who don't have high-speed internet if this happens.

Somehow I don't think waiting 24+ hours to download a movie is gonna fly with that crowd


Well, the spec is a ways off from being reality... and according to somewhere, as of the year 2000 or so, the majority of all internet connections were faster than dialup - so marketing solely to what will soon be an overwhelming majority shouldn't hurt business too much. I'm sure they're going to try to slowly integrate this - they've already gotten people used to the video on demand services with cable/satellite - it would essentially be the same thing. It does create another bar that will effectively brand those not willing to go along with it as backwards, lower-class members of society though - social dynamics will fix things up there quite quickly.
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Postby Athena » Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:07 pm

They tried this with DVD didn't they? The non-codec DivX? It failed miserably.

And even then, I personally have never agreed with the claim that a data file is not content. My understanding of language says otherwise. A file is a thing, and therefore exists outside of a license agreement. The MPAA and the RIAA want you to believe their orwellen doublethink that just because the content copy is digital that it is somehow "not real" and only exists because they "allow" it to.

The funny thing is, didn't they make the same argument with magnetic tapes? I recall there being a big fuss about cassettes being the end of the music/movie industry as we know it because they could so easily be copied by the average person with fairly minimal quality loss. And Sousa once said the phonograph would destroy the musical character of America.

Same shit, different technology, and the argument makes no more sense now than it did then. The hackers, especially in Europe, seem to already be working on Blu-Ray and HD-DVD cracks, so I'm not to worried at the point.
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Postby BasharOfTheAges » Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:21 pm

Kionon - I think you're talking about something totally different. This involves not actually having content on the disc. As in you buy a movie and the movie isn't on the disc - all the disc has is a validation code and unique product ID that will download it to your player when you insert the disc to play it.
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Postby Kariudo » Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:31 pm

BasharOfTheAges wrote:
Kariudo wrote:sounds like a pain, wonder how they're gonna cater to the people who don't have high-speed internet if this happens.

Somehow I don't think waiting 24+ hours to download a movie is gonna fly with that crowd


Well, the spec is a ways off from being reality... and according to somewhere, as of the year 2000 or so, the majority of all internet connections were faster than dialup - so marketing solely to what will soon be an overwhelming majority shouldn't hurt business too much. I'm sure they're going to try to slowly integrate this - they've already gotten people used to the video on demand services with cable/satellite - it would essentially be the same thing. It does create another bar that will effectively brand those not willing to go along with it as backwards, lower-class members of society though - social dynamics will fix things up there quite quickly.


It may not hurt business too much, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was taken to court as discrimination against those without access to a high speed connection (be it the price or the location)
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Postby BasharOfTheAges » Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:34 pm

Kariudo wrote:It may not hurt business too much, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was taken to court as discrimination against those without access to a high speed connection (be it the price or the location)

It's not a commodity - entertainment is a luxury item. You can go without it just fine - the Amish have been doing it for centuries.
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Postby Kariudo » Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:35 am

but there is a difference between choosing to not take part of things like that and being told, "skrew you, you can't watch movies because you don't have high-speed internet"

why shouldn't I be able to watch HD movies if I have all the right equipment? (meaning the HD player and an HD tv)
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Postby BasharOfTheAges » Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:05 am

we're discussing something that is proposed for years down the line here... If you decide to be in the small minority of people that don't have high-speed connections by then, then you don't participate. It's entertainment - not a necessity of life, so you're not entitled to it, you make the choice to be involved with it on a purely voluntary basis. Getting upset over it because you don't have the necessary line is the same as getting upset over not having other hardware, like the TV or the player.

The big deal I was getting at was the whole hobby thing we're involved with here and how that would be impeded when there isn't anything on the disc to rip. This would require real hardware hacks and/or invalidate any reason for buying DVDs in the first place.
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Postby Kariudo » Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:44 am

unless the prices for cable internet come down, or the US gets the cheap high-speed internet that uses power lines (available in Europe IIRC) I think it would be more than a small minority.
Remember that this also has to deal with where you live...high-speed internet isn't gonna reach to the boonies.

I'm saying that it's wrong to bar the people who would be otherwise able to watch HD things based on the fact that they don't have a high-speed connection.

as for our hobby, it would only be a matter of time before someone would make something to capture the media as it was coming to your computer.
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Postby BurningLeaves » Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:52 am

BasharOfTheAges wrote:It's entertainment - not a necessity of life, so you're not entitled to it, you make the choice to be involved with it on a purely voluntary basis. Getting upset over it because you don't have the necessary line is the same as getting upset over not having other hardware, like the TV or the player.


X2


"BasharOfTheAges wrote:The big deal I was getting at was the whole hobby thing we're involved with here and how that would be impeded when there isn't anything on the disc to rip. This would require real hardware hacks and/or invalidate any reason for buying DVDs in the first place.


With new technology always comes ways of destroying it though it does seem like a hassle I doubt any kind of copyright protection, even something like this will be fool proof, as smart as the people are who are designing it, they are no smarter then the people on the other side of the fence looking to take it apart. Or at least thats my hope

Websites such as <a href="http://www.movielink.com/store/web/home/home.jsp?modelID=model2"> this</a> seem to be popping up all over where you purchase and legally download movies straight to your computer, I haven't checked this out myself to see if there are any quality issues or what type of copyright there might be on these files but I think this is more likely to be the new trend in movie purchasing rather then the above mentioned one.
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Postby post-it » Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:20 am

@BurningLeaves .. you've got the right idea .. linking to movies PPV.

@Kionon .. yes it was tryed - I remember it! .. this is along those lines where the second you rent the Disc and Player the Phone line is used to verify that you can play the movie .. but what he is talking about is a little different:
1) you buy the Disc.
2) the codes are sent and verified.
3) the Movie is then sent to the machine where it erases the Disc and places a "CODE" on the Disc that "Only Your DVD Player" can play that video .. because each player has its own "CODE" to authorize that movies playing.
[[ in short form .. your player is the only thing allowed to play that movie -- no more sharing movies between friends and no more making AMV's from "encrypted anime!" ]]

.. as far as not having an Internet Connection, Sirus is already sending many TV Channels via Sattilite and a Sirus Radio type device for "Video On The Go" for cars already .. so an Internet Connection is not part of the equation anymore!

@BasharOfTheAges .. have they stated a possible implementation starting/testing date yet??
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