Helix is just too.. awesome..

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Helix is just too.. awesome..

Postby RadicalEd0 » Wed Oct 23, 2002 9:49 pm

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=199965#post199752

and the best quote:

karl_lillevold wrote:it should be possible to play back RV and RA content inside alternative containers + many other usage scenarios, not the least of which will be open source players of RealMedia content...
and of course open source encoders for RealMedia content, RealMedia or RV9 plugins for VirtualDub, FlaskMPEG, AVISynth, and whatnot.


I can see it now... RA8 + RV9 in an Ogg container on an XCD... mmm
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Postby 31Flavas » Wed Nov 13, 2002 3:49 pm

Hehe. Yo ed0! Just poped over here to say hi.

Don't go getting these people all flame happy :P
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Postby RadicalEd0 » Wed Nov 13, 2002 5:30 pm

heh, sup
this post is pretty old and nobody's had anything to say yet, so >:]
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Postby 31Flavas » Wed Nov 13, 2002 5:45 pm

Well, i'll make a little stink here then just lurk :)
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Postby RadicalEd0 » Wed Nov 13, 2002 5:46 pm

no way, we need more l33t video people here, there's only a select few ;]
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Postby 31Flavas » Wed Nov 13, 2002 6:01 pm

cool then, I'll stick around :)
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Postby ErMaC » Wed Nov 13, 2002 6:37 pm

I think we've got a few leet video people around :P
But regardless, I will stick with XviD for my encodes regardless of the container. As long as the encoder and decoder are black boxes (compressed goes in, uncompressed goes out, I have no idea what goes on in between) I'll stick with _real_ open source.
From the Helix press release:
RealAudio and RealVideo codecs in object code form

Object code form is just the nice way of saying "compiled - no source for you".

The only thing I owe RealNetworks for is releasing the Xing DVD Player a few years back. Without them, we might not have seen DeCSS for a while longer.
Oh yea - I was at CES a couple years ago and RealNetworks had a booth. DVD-Audio was the huge buzz that year (yes, this was like 2 years ago and it was the big buzz and it's just now coming out) and so I asked them, "Are you guys going to make a Xing DVD-Audio player? Cause I'd really love to be able to rip them soon." The guy looked at me kinda funny and I walked off laughing. I don't think he got it. :P
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Postby 31Flavas » Wed Nov 13, 2002 8:11 pm

ErMaC wrote:(compressed goes in, uncompressed goes out, I have no idea what goes on in between) I'll stick with _real_ open source.


The fact that the codecs aren't their's to release in the first place and that it's "A good thing" to support _real_ open source, but besides this. How would having the source that benifit you? I can read from your website that programming isn't your bag chips.... Or is it just the RealPlayer alone just so nasty that steers you away?

I'm not nessarily bashing divx, I just know from use, that real makes smaller files because you can use lower bitrates. (i.e. less money to pay because of lower bandwidth and lower disk space usage on webservers)
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Postby RadicalEd0 » Wed Nov 13, 2002 9:28 pm

DivX 5.02 dosent have the source code released and nobody complains about that :?

anyway ermac the ones that speak up at least are AD, you, myself, klinky, and zarxrax.
There are a few others these days but those are the 5 that I see answering the most posts and intelligently to boot
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Postby ErMaC » Thu Nov 14, 2002 2:00 am

Ed, This is true. But exactly how many videophiles do you want on the site? :)

And yes, I complain about DivX5.02 because it's a black box. I want to know WHY the B-frames suck ass, cause they shouldn't. The point of bframes is to lower bitrates and maintain quality, not lower bitrates and make half the frames look like crap.
With XviD, I know the people who work on it and maintain it, and if I have questions or bug reports, I can go to them. There are constant updates and improvements (they just recently added Chroma analysis as an option in motion estimation which benefits animation encodes immensely and improves PSNR, you even posted in that thread Ed) and it helps me learn more about the actual encoding process that takes place inside a codec to follow this kind of stuff.
And yes, I really do hate real player that much. And as I understand it, you would at least have to install RealPlayer's codecs at some point, and I don't know if there's a way to do that without installing RealPlayer. So even if I don't ues it to playback RV9 movies, I'll still have to have it installed, and just having on the machines makes my skin crawl. I hate it THAT MUCH.
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Postby ErMaC » Thu Nov 14, 2002 2:02 am

Oh and as for the whole hosting thing, I don't care much about that. Hell, my next video that's in planning I'm considering only posting a DVD-quality MPEG2 file of, because the video would get butchered any other way except throwing an equal amount of bits at it with XviD and if I'm gonna spend that kinda filesize on it, why not go with a standard more widely accepted?
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Postby klinky » Thu Nov 14, 2002 2:20 am

I think the REAL problem with REAL <---ha ha ha pun.

Is that it's been sucky for so long that umm, it's left a bad taste in peoples mouths. That and the fact that it's got the crappy player. Though I will say that RealOne is better then any other Real player they've put out before.

I've just had so much fun with Real in the past. I never got a good live stream with it. Never got a good "offline" file with it. The audio always sounded tinty to me. The stupid player would freeze up for no apparent reason. I remember one time if I double clicked a .rm file it would open and the player would just freeze, yet if I opened the player and dragged the file in it would play just fine. Why!? WTF!?

Anyways, it's been sucky for so long that I just will not accept it's greatness ;p. Also I jus love WMP 6.4 classic, any vid player that needs a skin usually sucks.



It should also be known I am not a l33t video guru, I don't have wet dreams over quantinization, or matrix, or motion detection algorithms ;p. I don't run test renders on anything really, I don't use any vdub filters. If I feel I need to uhh do something right then I'll spend some "active time" on it. I don't like waiting for renders ;p. Anything that takes more then 5 minutes unless it's reallly fucking important, is time I could be using to play MOHAA ;p LOL... So don't come asking me about video codec-a-majigs ;p

The whole thing with the frame identification, B-frame makes no sense as to what it does. Wait, maybe it's uhh Before frame. Hmmm ;p Nah I don't know.


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Postby Aetherfukz » Thu Nov 14, 2002 8:18 am

I second the canon.
Real Player is the real (d)evil! Hehe. I mean, it contains more spyware & adware then every other program, and it is unstable and fully unreliable. But another big drawback is, it doesn't supply Surround Sound. I mean, heh, it is not that hard to play videos thru DirectSound on a Surround System, hell, even Media Player does it. So why do I have to listen to 2 boxes only, while everything else (even the windows sounds) are on 5 boxes?!

I used to use RealPlayer often times ago when I only had a crappy .56k Modem, but nowadays, there is no real excuse for using RealPlayer (pun intended :P ).

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Postby RadicalEd0 » Thu Nov 14, 2002 12:01 pm

WTF? oO
real9 comes with surround codecs so I'd be highly surpirsed if RealOne dosent support surround.
And ermac, once theres stuff out for encoding and playing back real I'm sure there will be standalone codec installers like with nic's WM9 encoder so you wont have to install realone. Same goes for klinky, playback of real in wmp will be possible ;P
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Postby klinky » Thu Nov 14, 2002 2:30 pm

RadicalEd0 wrote:WTF? oO
real9 comes with surround codecs so I'd be highly surpirsed if RealOne dosent support surround.
And ermac, once theres stuff out for encoding and playing back real I'm sure there will be standalone codec installers like with nic's WM9 encoder so you wont have to install realone. Same goes for klinky, playback of real in wmp will be possible ;P



It's just when you say "I encoded my video with RealVideo & RealAudio" the automatic reaction(mine too) is a big fat :roll: ---it's gonna suck.

It's just engrained in my mind. Real may not have technical problems now adays, it seems more a mental problem :twisted:


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