Combing

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Combing

Postby x265 » Tue May 28, 2013 8:18 am

How do i fix the combs in a soft telecined DVD?
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Re: Combing

Postby mirkosp » Tue May 28, 2013 8:25 am

If you actually have a soft pulldown on hand, I doubt there can be leftover combs (you're supposed to force film those to begin with, btw).
Still, in case you have some small combs to fix for whatever reason (different patterns overlayed or stuff like that), then try vinverse.
Another good filter for the purpose can be daa.
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Re: Combing

Postby x265 » Tue May 28, 2013 11:56 am

Can i IVTC these combed frames?
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Re: Combing

Postby Mister Hatt » Wed May 29, 2013 4:26 am

You don't need to IVTC soft telecine, that's the whole point of soft telecine. If you have combing in soft telecined material, then it's field blending and you're pretty screwed. You should read up on how to process soft telecine, see mirko's post.
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Re: Combing

Postby x265 » Sat Jun 01, 2013 10:39 am

Image

Image

Image

These screenshots were taken from a soft telecined DVD.
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Re: Combing

Postby x265 » Sat Jun 01, 2013 10:40 am

Image

Is this ghosting?
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Re: Combing

Postby Mister Hatt » Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:22 am

Looks like chroma blending (ghosting is generally luma). It's simple enough to check if that "ghosting" effect is in every moving frame but if it is then you can calculate the offset, lose a frame at the start or end, and shift it accordingly. But I almost wonder, given the slight combing above, if you tried to IVTC it or something and that's why it happened. What exactly did you do to have it as a progressive clip?
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Re: Combing

Postby x265 » Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:40 am

DGsource("xyz.dgi", fieldop=1)
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Re: Combing

Postby x265 » Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:45 am

The frames are blended only in a small section of the episode.
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Re: Combing

Postby Mister Hatt » Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:02 am

It's combed because you didn't read the manual. Do you know what fieldop actually does?
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Re: Combing

Postby x265 » Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:35 am

Yes.

Force Film (fieldop=1) - This option is intended for the special case of film content encoded at 23.976 fps but pulled down for display at 29.97 fps, i.e., 3:2 pulldown. This option will restore the 23.976 fps film rate while keeping audio and video in sync throughout the clip. This option works by ignoring pulldown flags and adjusting the frame rate back to the film rate. Do not use this option on non-3:2 pulled-down material, and, therefore, never use it on PAL.
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Re: Combing

Postby Mister Hatt » Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:28 pm

I'm just going to point out that you fully understand what a setting does, and then proceed to use it as incorrectly as possible. Forcing it to be 23.976fps would be fine if it WAS 23.976, but it isn't so you end up with the 29.970fps parts interlaced and at the wrong framerate. By honouring pulldown, you would allow it to set itself to be 29.970fps the entire time, and conversely with ignore pulldown, it would be 23.976fps for the soft-telecine bits and 29.970fps for the rest, which is what you want.

Your content is hybrid (although probably all coded as interlaced), and potentially VFR. You'll need to look at the interlaced bits in vdub or something to determine if they're telecined or pure VFR but either way, a trimmed filter in avs should fix it without any major surgery. I'll assume you know enough to determine telecine vs interlacing in avs.
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Re: Combing

Postby l33tmeatwad » Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:46 pm

x265 wrote:Quoted Image converted to link:
https://imageshack.us/a/img855/2092/91749782.png

Is this ghosting?

I think that entire shot was messed up when filming or was meant to look that way, as only that one character is like that in the scene and she is like that for that entire sequence. As for the rest of the footage...just slap some DAA() on it...that show was messed up in the DVD authoring process leaving massive combing artifacts issue.

Mister Hatt wrote:Your content is hybrid (although probably all coded as interlaced), and potentially VFR. You'll need to look at the interlaced bits in vdub or something to determine if they're telecined or pure VFR but either way, a trimmed filter in avs should fix it without any major surgery. I'll assume you know enough to determine telecine vs interlacing in avs.

It's film captured cel animation with no computer effects thrown in at all, it is NOT hybrid or VFR. What happened with that show was they messed up the DVD masters and caused a massive combing artifacts issues...standard patterns restore the footage to proper flow...but all the episodes have aliasing throughout the entire thing no matter what you do...
Last edited by l33tmeatwad on Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Combing

Postby Mister Hatt » Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:30 am

That doesn't sound right at all, seeing as the OP has declared it to be mostly ok when forced FILM, which implies most of it is soft-telecine and pattern detection is useless. Additionally, the distortion is clearly combing, NOT aliasing, and the ghosting effect looks like what is very typical of an incorrect field order setting in forced deinterlacing, a common issue on mostly soft-telecined content with hybrid or VFR sections. I think your suggestion will definitely fix some stuff in a damaging way, but for most people it will be enough to make it look ok. There is a better way to do it for quality and speed's sake which I've outlined. Making assumptions about the mastering of a DVD, especially something relatively high profile, is not the right way to help anybody.

Incidentally, still cels inside a larger frame was among the first digital composition effects, long before CG and computer rendering.

(PS I've seen the actual masters, you're wrong)
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Re: Combing

Postby x265 » Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:25 am

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