Call to Arms: AVTECH4

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mirkosp
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Re: Call to Arms: AVTECH4

Post by mirkosp » Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:14 am

Alright. I confirmed pismo to be working with 32bit dgdecnv and avs and loading the mounted avi in premiere. It took a bit for it to load (seemed like it wanted to crash) but it worked out.
THAT SAID.
EvaFan, you are crazy if you REALLY intend to edit in these conditions. I tested, and as I thought, backward seeking is just a damn pain in the ass. And no, it's not an hardware issue (decode is on gpu, and I'm not doing anything else in the avs, so it's not an avs bottleneck; hardware is not an issue either). It's just that, you know, backward seek in a non I-frame only environment cannot be as smooth as a pure i-frame video. Hence why I *really* want people to use lossless. Lossless clipping is going to take them a dozen GBs or two at worst, and with current prices that is not too much to ask to a person. The other side of the coin from this is that editing will be fast and fun. It's just annoying when you have to wait or things go slow in the NLE, you can't deny that.
I will still include Pismo in the guide, but I will make damn sure that only the masochists with only a couple free GBs total will go through the route...

EDIT: 64bit is part of the equation. The Adobe Creative Suite has moved to 64bit. The 64bit avs plugin is a solution only for those with a vp2 or better nvidia gpu since only dgdecnv is 64bit and is frame accurate with BDs. However since pismo worked, that's going to be "fine," since I can let people use 32bit avs without issues.
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Re: Call to Arms: AVTECH4

Post by EvaFan » Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:46 pm

Yeah I would be pretty crazy to do that with 2 ati cards installed.
"The people cannot be [...] always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to [...] the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to public liberty. What country can preserve its liberties, if it's rulers are not warned [...] that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants."-Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Call to Arms: AVTECH4

Post by mirkosp » Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:38 pm

Those aren't gonna help at all. Decoding happens on the cpu unless you use a gpu decoder. The only way to do frame accurate gpu decoding in avisynth is through dgdecnv, which requires vp2 or higher (aka nvidia). If you want to use those ati of yours in avisynth (dxva support, I take) then you'll have to go through directshow, I assume, which possibly means DSS2/DirectShowSource, and especially the latter is NOT frame accurate, thus AWFUL for direct amv editing without lossless re-encoding. And yes, you are pretty crazy if you want to do backward seeking with non i-frame only sources and expect it to be blazing fast and frame accurate, there is no questioning it nor hardware bragging involved.
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Re: Call to Arms: AVTECH4

Post by EvaFan » Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:10 pm

I wasnt bragging, I was saying its crazy to use dgdecnv with 2 ati cards.

I dont really care to carry this convo anymore. I used dgavcdec, 32bit avs with mt, and premiere pro 2.0 and the original avs import plugin to make my hotd trailer. all stuff I used originally before cs5. I'm well aware that neuron2 hasn't made a 64bit version of dgavcdecdi yet. I didnt know you planned to make this guide for 64bit only until a few posts in. good luck with the guide. Cant believe I was bothered enough to respond while waking up for some milk, on my phone at that.
"The people cannot be [...] always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to [...] the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to public liberty. What country can preserve its liberties, if it's rulers are not warned [...] that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants."-Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Call to Arms: AVTECH4

Post by mirkosp » Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:44 pm

No, I don't intend to make it 64bit only. However good support for both 32bit and 64bit NLEs is crucial nowadays. I didn't want to include the avs plugin for premiere exactly because it has the 32/64bit issue, plus it is adobe only. As pismo is a generic solution and seems to work fine both with 32 and 64bit software, I'll stick with that (but will still recommend to use lossless if possible).
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Re: Call to Arms: AVTECH4

Post by Eake4 » Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:41 am

I believe I can help with the second thing and reading from all the text previously written, I can tell this is gonna be really good and organized.
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Re: Call to Arms: AVTECH4

Post by mirkosp » Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:27 am

It's actually been really hard to organize so far, since I'm bad with these things. Having a lot of .html files with links back and forth is getting confusing... :sweat:
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Re: Call to Arms: AVTECH4

Post by GloryQuestor » Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:43 am

mirkosp wrote:Adding to what Zarxrax said, keep in mind this is thought out to be very BD oriented; DVDs are getting phased out, albeit slowly, and I'd really like to avoid encouraging people to download footage regularly.
Even if they are getting phased out slowly, I feel that we should always have a legacy guide available in every future iteration, for the following reasons:

- DVDs are going to be getting cheaper as stock sits unsold -- RightStuf would be the first to see profit in a DVD clearance market when the time comes, and Amazon is already deep cutting their prices on anime DVDs.
- There are too many people out there who still have a large DVD library and do not want to spend vast amounts of money they don't have to replace them with BDs. Just isn't going to happen. :roll:
- What if the BD market eventually fails? I know a lot of people who only buy BDs if the DVDs aren't available separately (bundle packs). Sure, they can tout that they're selling their BDs, but they're probably deluding themselves. :P
- Learning about (mostly crapitude) DVD production is an educational experience for budding audio/visual majors in college who might complain about how bad BDs are done someday. :sweat:

That just my 2¢ on it, anyway. :amv:
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Re: Call to Arms: AVTECH4

Post by BasharOfTheAges » Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:19 am

The BD market won't fail because a few backwards people don't see the benefit of technological progress; it'll fail with the shift to digital-only availability that will remove all perceived fair-use rights of ownership and transition this entire hobby to pirate-only source acquisition.
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mirkosp
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Re: Call to Arms: AVTECH4

Post by mirkosp » Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:33 am

The guide is STILL going to talk about DVDs. Just that BDs will be covered a lot better than the current "hey if you have a BD you can try DSS2 and it might work".
Mostly because the things one need to know for BDs are MORE than the things are needed to know for DVDs (but most of the time it's unnecessary to know them since BDs are generally in a better shape than DVDs).
But still, the guide will have to talk about deinterlacing and all, since interlaced content can be found on BDs.
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