Today's Pop Music and the culture Supporting it.

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Today's Pop Music and the culture Supporting it.

Postby Fall_Child42 » Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:52 am

As this is a forum for discussion, and not simply for listing what music you happen to like the best, I have a few conundrums I would like people to help me out with.

As R&B and Hip-Hop is the current popular music of the moment I would like to ask, how has a genre of music with such noble and artistic roots degraded into what it is today? I realize that the answer is largely capitalism as the same thing happened with metal years ago... Glam Rock bands flying at us from every angle during the 80's but I don't remember anything quite like what we have now.

I have chose Four relatively popular songs (as in the got substantial enough radio and T.V. play to have been brought to my attention which is somewhat impressive as i don't tend to listen to this genre at all) to display for your consideration.

Exhibit A: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zaH4lEWSD4

(please excuse the Youtube links, :\)

This song is sadly the LEAST ridiculous and over the top of my examples, but the Champagne bottle imagery, the amazing degradation of women AND men, and the idea that any women would like to hear "Wait till you see my dick hey Bitch." or "Imma Beat that pussy up" i find unbelievable

Exhibit B: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKIwnd3VbVs

Ok, The reference to childhood candy obviously brings a somewhat humorous nostalgia, and the linking it to various womens sexual parts and acts brings that into the insane. Though i have been assure that this song is good to "grind" to, but I can't figure out how, as there is a total of 6 main beats, which (at the risk of angering video game music fans) sound like they came out of a NES sound chip.

Exhibit C: http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid= ... 1850412350

Oh My sister heard this on the radio at her work and showed it to me, I as many of you may or may not know, collect really strange and often "musically" horrible songs that i find so ridiculously bad they amuse me, and the "chipmunk" voice at the beginning of this otherwise standard R&B track always has me laughing ... then I watched the video... This guy was serious after all ... :\

Exhibit D: http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid= ... 8858812413

I can't describe how incredibly odd it is to see a rapper sing about how awesome his jewelry is in front of an ice cream truck. at the end of the video, just to make sure you portray a good image of your own culture you show the children thieving from the ice cream truck driver while he is distracted by a prostitute looking (I'm assuming relative of some form)

My questions are,
Are these people trying to be taken seriously?

Are they being taken seriously? Or is their popularity some form of mass joke?

Do people actually think this is "cool"

Do people inside of that culture realize how insanely ludicrous this all is and are asking themselves WHAT ARE THEY THINKING?

I would like to end with not a rap but a spoken word Video I had found, discussing Popular Rap culture.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTPNwkEjD7Y
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Postby Otohiko » Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:19 am

Culture AND industry supporting it.

My explanation isn't really the rise of mass retardedness, so much as an industry that actively caters to it. I think the real difference between 20 years ago and now is the continuing growth of large music business. The 'urban' direction of this is purely coincidental.

Let's face it, as idealistic as we might like to be, it's not hard to sell this type of stuff to people. It corresponds very well with some very base instincts. And as soon as it gets to seem like it's basically fine and mainstream, there you have it. In Russia we call it "Popsa".

Yea, all of those are pretty bad, although the latter two (discounting the smart dude talking one) are at least tolerably so. The first two are just dehumanizingly bad.

What do we do? I don't know. Can you imagine trying to pull random kids on the street and trying to tell them "stop listening to this shit, here's some actual music"?
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Postby Fall_Child42 » Mon Nov 20, 2006 2:07 am

Otohiko wrote: Can you imagine trying to pull random kids on the street and trying to tell them "stop listening to this shit, here's some actual music"?


http://www.yhbtm.com/jt_ca.html

?

But yes i agree if it wasn't for the mass media being in a few hands i think we'd hear more variety...

Thank God for the CBC at least we get some non-corporate programing
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Postby Farlo » Mon Nov 20, 2006 2:13 am

any form of music will always be capitalized upon by people who have no interest in the music itself. to them its nothing more than potential profit.
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Postby requiett » Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:18 am

The moral of the story is: If you listen to this stuff, you'll get cars with hydraulics, gold chains, respekt, and two bitches on every arm.
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Postby Gepetto » Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:31 am

requiett wrote:The moral of the story is: If you listen to this stuff, you'll get cars with hydraulics, gold chains, respekt, and two bitches on every arm.


AND the brutha's and dawgs will fear you cuz u've been in da hood and you're packin' heat.

I admire the original rap music. Standing up and talking about how life really is for "da niggas" who are, in theory, treated the same as any other racial group. But the problem is, the stuff makes money.

Sit I'll have to cut this in the middle. Chemistry class.
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Postby requiett » Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:45 am

Gepetto wrote:AND the brutha's and dawgs will fear you cuz u've been in da hood and you're packin' heat.

I already said respekt.
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Postby Flint the Dwarf » Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:21 am

http://www.ocweekly.com/music/music/thi ... nas/18901/

An attempt to explain one particular popular song. Might shed some light on the appeal to this kind of music.
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Postby Fall_Child42 » Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:05 pm

Flint the Dwarf wrote:http://www.ocweekly.com/music/music/this-shit-is-bananas/18901/

An attempt to explain one particular popular song. Might shed some light on the appeal to this kind of music.


Amazing, This is deeper and more meaningful then i had first suspected...


Mabey the "Chain" is his referance to Jibbs' social status, and the fact 24 inches is how low he's "letting it hang" is a reverance to his low position in this society, and that it's HIS fault he's in that position...they only way he can raise himself up is through sacrafice and hard work.

the RED White And Blue mentioned later in the song must be a referance to the industriousness and the American Dream.

interesting Interesting.
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Postby 8bit_samurai » Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:15 am

Gepetto wrote: I admire the original rap music. Standing up and talking about how life really is for "da niggas" who are, in theory, treated the same as any other racial group. But the problem is, the stuff makes money.


x2

Got a nice collection of exhibits thar...

I know some people that thinks those are "cool" (except for exhibit B, never met anyone who thought it was "cool" and for C, it's the younger generation of females) but they come from a small rural town where the younger generation chooses to listen to hip hop/rap over other genres.

Do they take it seriously? I doubt it. Not as serious as emo kids taking Linkin Park seriously, or used to. Maybe not these songs anyway. Except for C, some of the female audience there probably do to an extent, or at least used to. As for A and D, they take it as serious as they do fashion, like a fad or something. This is based on the people that I know and not sure if it's applicable to others who listen to these songs.

There are probably some songs that are taken seriously, but I can't think of any at the moment.
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Postby rubyeye » Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:46 pm

The reason why anything is popular is the same reason why everybody panics in a crowded room when 1 person yells "FIRE"! People don't like to be left out, everyone likes to "fit in", generally speaking. We're social animals. Advertisers "TELL YOU" something is popular only to get you to buy it - it's self fulfilling (it then becomes popular because everyone bought it).

Anyway, just to answer your question: People are fucking stupid. That sums it up for you. A person may be smart and intelligent, but as soon as they start thinking like a collective, their IQ (and individuality) drops significantly.

Of course this is just my general rant on the poor state of humanity. I'm no social anthropologist, but I do know a few professors who study mass media culture. Fascinating stuff actually.
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Postby Otohiko » Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:50 pm

Wouldn't say it's a 'poor state' of humanity, so much as a 'human state of humanity' that a lot of people aren't comfortable with recognizing.

Here's a question:
What music do you think is the alternative to modern-day popsa? Surely hard punk or death metal wouldn't work for most people, awesome though some specimens of that may be...
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Postby megaman917 » Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:50 am

Fall_Child42 wrote:
Flint the Dwarf wrote:http://www.ocweekly.com/music/music/this-shit-is-bananas/18901/

An attempt to explain one particular popular song. Might shed some light on the appeal to this kind of music.


Amazing, This is deeper and more meaningful then i had first suspected...


Mabey the "Chain" is his referance to Jibbs' social status, and the fact 24 inches is how low he's "letting it hang" is a reverance to his low position in this society, and that it's HIS fault he's in that position...they only way he can raise himself up is through sacrafice and hard work.

the RED White And Blue mentioned later in the song must be a referance to the industriousness and the American Dream.

interesting Interesting.

Not really, he's just bragging about his jewlery. Not every hip-hop song has a deeper meaning. However, I could be wrong.

All four exhibits have one thing in common, these artists are from the southern states. Just like how metal has, only God knows how, many sub-genres, hip-hop and some R&B has its sub-genres/styles, one of which is southern rap/hip-hop. This style and its sub-styles, (which generally differs from artist to artist), generally differs from the styles of those who are not from the souther states.

2006 has mainly featured artists from the "Dirty South". Southern rappers have their own style. A good amount of Southern rap, from what I've seen, isn't really meant to have a deeper meaning at all. It's simply meant to be feel good music, music you can dance to, music to get your significant other 'in the mood'.

Exhibit A: "Wait (The Whisper Song)" by Ying Yang Twins: Is there any deep meaning? In my opinion, no. The Ying Yang Twins generally make feel good & party music. This song in particular basically talks about getting you wife/girlfriend/date/hooker/significant other to your home/hotel/whereever, drink some champagne, whisper sweet nothing in her ear, and have sex; hence, the reason they are wispering the lyrics, and why it's called "Wait (The Whisper Song)".

Exhibit B: "Laffy Taffy" by D4L: Is there any deep meaning? Not as far as I can see. However in a televised interview, D4L explained that they are/were trying to show/prove that hip-hop isn't all about being gangsta, doing drugs, getting trouble with the police, etc, as potrayed in many a rap song by many gangsta rappers. If I remember correctly, they also mentioned that they were trying take hip-hop back to its roots or back to basics by using basic repititive beats, feel good/party lyrics, etc.

Exhibit C: "Lonely" by Akon: A story is being told. Personally I didn't bother listening to the rest of it to find out what Akon was trying to get across, aside from being lonely. IMO, this not one of Akon's bests.
Akon is an R&B singer, who will sing about ghetto life, partying, romance, and real life situations; on his own songs. Akon is also featured on the chorus of many rap songs, making him sort of like the new Nate Dogg.

Exhibit D: "Chain Hang Low" by Jibbs: Jibbs is simply bragging about his jewlery. If you go to any predominantly black neighborhood, you will see a lot of guys wearing jewlery; whether it's gold/daimond chains, watches, rings, grills (that cover your teeth), etc.

To answer all the questions proposed above:
People inside the culture may only be concerned with listening to what they like, and may ask similar questions and bring up similar arguments about your general preference in music. And only those who are in a given culture will be able to best explain and shed light on said arguments to best of their ability.

That's the way I see it.



I'll might add more later.
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Re: Today's Pop Music and the culture Supporting it.

Postby nailz » Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:05 am

Fall_Child42 wrote:Exhibit D: http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid= ... 8858812413

I can't describe how incredibly odd it is to see a rapper sing about how awesome his jewelry is in front of an ice cream truck. at the end of the video, just to make sure you portray a good image of your own culture you show the children thieving from the ice cream truck driver while he is distracted by a prostitute looking (I'm assuming relative of some form)


When you put it like that, it does in fact, make the video absolutely ludacris (LOL RAP PUN!). I actually could not believe how absolutely facinated this guy was with his jewlery. Worse, I think, was the children singing. "Do your chain hang low?" Isn't the misconception that speaking ebonics makes you fucking stupid enough that these people would understand it creates stereotypes of the entire black community when you can't SPEAK PROPER FUCKING ENGLISH? It really annoys me less from Rappers than it does from sports figures conducting interviews.

All aside. Whats the deal with his teeth? Does anyone else find that absolutely revolting?
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Postby Gepetto » Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:07 am

megaman917 wrote:Just like how metal has, only God knows how, many sub-genres


I believe the Wikipedia calls those "weasel words". You didn't say it up front but you imply that Metal is too poor a music style to have proper "sub-genres".

The differences vary from the category of subjects to the emphasis given to guitar/drum solos, use of instruments like flutes and violins, proportion of the song's lenght that has vocals, predominant tempo, pitch and aspect of vocals, lexic style, metrification and other aspects. For example, in Power Metal the lyrics usually tend towards the "epic" style, and the solos are long and fast. Progresive Metal lyrics are usually metrificated and make a point of always rhyming words that are more or less in disuse, and the tempos are "irregular", like 16/8, as oppsoed to your usual 4/4 or 3/4. Death Metal vocals are the characteristic "growl and grunt" that is stereotipically associated with metal in general.

And yadda-yadda-yadda.

I know I'm swaying off-topic here and I don't want to turn this into a discussion of what music style is "best", but allow me to say that metal (and most other musical genres) is a lot more content-rich than songs about bling-bling and clever phallic euphemisms. Enphasis on "clever".

Back to the topic at hand, for now I'll just agree with rubyeye while these streams load...

And requiett, I missed the "respeckt". My bad.
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