Metal bass

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Metal bass

Postby NicholasDWolfwood » Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:07 pm

Recommend some good metal bass players. Gogogo.

I already know about Steve DiGiorgio and Scott Clendenin, 'Arry, Martin Mendez and Johan DeFarfalla, Tony Choy and Sean Malone, Jason Newsted, Alex Webster, Cryptopsy's bassist (can't think of his name)...I can't really think of anybody else sadly :(
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Postby Tono_Fyr » Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:27 pm

Oliver Holzwarth

Hansi Kursch before he went all vocals.

Piet Sielck is the frontman for Iron Savior, and they've done some really bass-intensive stuff.
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Postby Tono_Fyr » Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:28 pm

Tono_Fyr wrote:Oliver Holzwarth

Hansi Kursch before he went all vocals.

Piet Sielck is the frontman for Iron Savior, and they've done some really bass-intensive stuff.


Dammit, he's the lead guitarist for IS >.< He's the bassist for Savage Circus.
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Postby Flint the Dwarf » Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:49 pm

John Myung, Mike Lepond, Joey Demaio, and Les Claypool.
Kusoyaro: We don't need a leader. We need to SHUT UP. Make what you want to make, don't make you what you don't want to make. If neither of those applies to you, then you need to SHUT UP MORE.
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Postby Zaphod_Beeblebrox » Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:52 pm

John Myung (Dream Theater)

Cliff Burton (Metallica)

Tony Levin's work with Liquid Tension Experiment

Robert Trujilo when he was still playing with Ozzy

Geezer Butler (Black Sabbath)

Brian Marshall (Alter Bridge/Creed)

That should keep you going for now...
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Postby NicholasDWolfwood » Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:13 pm

I already know about Burton, and I never found anything about him special. Newsted was a better bassist than Cliff.

Myung bores me. I used to be a big fan of Dream Theater, but I kinda got tired of the "epic" wankery.

Levin I've never heard his stuff and I've never really listened to Sabbath.
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Postby Zaphod_Beeblebrox » Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:20 pm

NicholasDWolfwood wrote:Newsted was a better bassist than Cliff.


Bloody heretic.

Burton was by far the best thing that ever happened to that band, after that it all went downhill, And as for Jason Newstead being better...I have nothing to say. I question whether you have ever seen a video of Cliff pulling out a solo in a live environment, because if you had you'd see how much of a technically skilled bassist he was, as well as being musically gifted.
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Postby NicholasDWolfwood » Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:31 pm

I know exactly what I'm talking about. Jason Newsted was far more talented than Cliff Burton was.

Burton may have known theory and he could have been a technically good bassist, but when did he ever apply it? 99% of the stuff that Burton did with Metallica followed the guitars. Is that because Burton was technically gifted? I'm not saying that it had to be a wankfest like Dream Theater, because God knows thrash metal has bass that only follows the guitars ( :roll: ) but really, what did Cliff do that was so brilliant? A bass solo in Orion, and some really fast playing in Call of Ktulu? The beginning notes of For Whom the Bell Tolls? Anesthesia, which is hardly a technical piece, that I was playing easily at 8 months into bass playing?

Newsted's work period goes far beyond what Cliff accomplished. Cliff was only in Metallica for 6 years. Let's just talk about Newsted's work with Metallica though. Most of the ...And Justice For All basslines are pretty creative, not to mention he wrote most of Blackened. My Friend of Misery, possibly the most recognizable Newsted bass piece for Metallica; simple, but effective. Where the Wild Things Are, one of the few high points on ReLoad.

Not to mention his work with Flotsam and Jetsam, writing 90% of their first album by himself.
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Postby Zaphod_Beeblebrox » Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:03 pm

NicholasDWolfwood wrote:Burton may have known theory and he could have been a technically good bassist,


What more can you really ask of an instrumentalist exactly?

NicholasDWolfwood wrote:but when did he ever apply it? 99% of the stuff that Burton did with Metallica followed the guitars.


Yeah, in the recorded versions, live he was a whole different animal, the solos are some of the most difficult pieces of non-slapped bass you will ever hear, the fact that he played almost exclusively with his fingers using 3, sometime all four on his right hand, trust me, i can play some of his lines with a pick, but i'm no where near most of the whole of 'master of puppets' (album) with fingers.

NicholasDWolfwood wrote:Cliff was only in Metallica for 6 years.


That's the worst argument i ever heard. The man died, who knows what would have happened if he hadn't.

NicholasDWolfwood wrote:Let's just talk about Newsted's work with Metallica though. Most of the ...And Justice For All basslines are pretty creative, not to mention he wrote most of Blackened. My Friend of Misery, possibly the most recognizable Newsted bass piece for Metallica; simple, but effective.


Hmm, right, and how are the same riffs over and over and over again inventive? Cliff instigated time signature changes, sprawling instrumental sections, bass solos, truly meaningful lyrics, what did Newstead do? My Friend of Misery? The man couldn't even be bothered to follow the guitar properly, god only knows what Master of Puppets and Ride the Lightning would have sounded like had newstead got his hands on them.

And as for blackened...damn that's one boring, long-ass song, and apocalyptic lyrics...whooo, thats never been done before, has it?
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Postby NicholasDWolfwood » Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:43 pm

Zaphod_Beeblebrox wrote:What more can you really ask of an instrumentalist exactly?


It was more of an "if, then" statement than a truth statement. Obviously Cliff knew theory, but whether he was a technically good bassist is up for debate, since, well, he didn't do much.

Yeah, in the recorded versions, live he was a whole different animal, the solos are some of the most difficult pieces of non-slapped bass you will ever hear, the fact that he played almost exclusively with his fingers using 3, sometime all four on his right hand, trust me, i can play some of his lines with a pick, but i'm no where near most of the whole of 'master of puppets' (album) with fingers.
Most of the stuff on Master of Puppets is very easy. Playing Battery and Master of Puppets back to back is simple. I haven't tried learn the rest of the album because my time has gone to Death and Nile. Ah yes, and most of Cliff's lines can be played with two fingers. The only ones I can think of that should be/have to be played with three are Battery and Fight Fire with Fire since they're more galloping based, especially at the tempo they're at.

Also, the solos that Cliff played are nothing special. Whoopy, he played with distortion and wah.

That's the worst argument i ever heard. The man died, who knows what would have happened if he hadn't.


My arguement is that he didn't have time to prove how good he was or could have been, there's no way to predict he wouldn't have left the band after Puppets, or there's no way to predict that he would have had a greater influence on their work than he already did.

Hmm, right, and how are the same riffs over and over and over again inventive? Cliff instigated time signature changes, sprawling instrumental sections, bass solos, truly meaningful lyrics, what did Newstead do? My Friend of Misery? The man couldn't even be bothered to follow the guitar properly, god only knows what Master of Puppets and Ride the Lightning would have sounded like had newstead got his hands on them.


"Sprawling instrumental sections"? Nothing that Metallica did in the first three albums was hard. Hetfield wrote most of the lyrics for Metallica, he always has. Bass solos? I'd hardly call them "bass' solos, more like a mess of distortion.

As far as Newsted, he probably would have improved them a little. Newsted was restricted greatly in Metallica up until Load/ReLoad. Not to mention anything he ever did in Metallica is smothered by his work on Flotsam and Jetsam's debut, "Doomsday for the Deceiver." Listen to it before you judge Newsted, thanks.

And as for blackened...damn that's one boring, long-ass song, and apocalyptic lyrics...whooo, thats never been done before, has it?
If it's so boring, why does the crowd hugely pop for it every time they play it, hmm?
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Postby Tono_Fyr » Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:06 am

So, basically Nicholas, Newsted did two good albums, then made a bunch of shit? Because everything after the Black album has sucked (and some would argue that black itself sucked).
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Postby Zaphod_Beeblebrox » Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:07 am

NicholasDWolfwood wrote:
Zaphod_Beeblebrox wrote:What more can you really ask of an instrumentalist exactly?


It was more of an "if, then" statement than a truth statement. Obviously Cliff knew theory, but whether he was a technically good bassist is up for debate, since, well, he didn't do much.


Oh, yeah, unless you consider writing a lot of the parts for Ride the Lightning and Master of Puppets to be something, and at least writing his own instrumental track, Newstead wrote virtually nothing aside from blackened. And before you go extolling the virtues of the rest of the album might i point out that Burton also wrote part of 'To Live is to Die'. Moreover, if you watch a video of one of his solos come back and tell me he wasn't technically skilled, I'll bet you'll see otherwise.

NicholasDWolfwood wrote:Most of the stuff on Master of Puppets is very easy. Playing Battery and Master of Puppets back to back is simple. I haven't tried learn the rest of the album because my time has gone to Death and Nile. Ah yes, and most of Cliff's lines can be played with two fingers. The only ones I can think of that should be/have to be played with three are Battery and Fight Fire with Fire since they're more galloping based, especially at the tempo they're at.

Also, the solos that Cliff played are nothing special. Whoopy, he played with distortion and wah.


I never said you had to play them with three, but it takes more time and practice to be able to play with 3 or 4, therefore making the playing more technical.

They are excellent solos, if you had much musical nouse you'd be able to hear past the distortion and wah and recognise that he's playing some highly technical shit in there.

NicholasDWolfwood wrote:
That's the worst argument i ever heard. The man died, who knows what would have happened if he hadn't.


My arguement is that he didn't have time to prove how good he was or could have been, there's no way to predict he wouldn't have left the band after Puppets, or there's no way to predict that he would have had a greater influence on their work than he already did.


It certainly didn't sound that way to me, it sounded more like you were saying he just didn't work for long enough to be better, when he produced much more technically and musically accomplished work than newstead ever has.

NicholasDWolfwood wrote:
Hmm, right, and how are the same riffs over and over and over again inventive? Cliff instigated time signature changes, sprawling instrumental sections, bass solos, truly meaningful lyrics, what did Newstead do? My Friend of Misery? The man couldn't even be bothered to follow the guitar properly, god only knows what Master of Puppets and Ride the Lightning would have sounded like had newstead got his hands on them.


"Sprawling instrumental sections"? Nothing that Metallica did in the first three albums was hard. Hetfield wrote most of the lyrics for Metallica, he always has. Bass solos? I'd hardly call them "bass' solos, more like a mess of distortion.

As far as Newsted, he probably would have improved them a little. Newsted was restricted greatly in Metallica up until Load/ReLoad. Not to mention anything he ever did in Metallica is smothered by his work on Flotsam and Jetsam's debut, "Doomsday for the Deceiver." Listen to it before you judge Newsted, thanks.


I'll judge Newstead on what he did in Metallica, the same way i'm judging Burton. And as for Load/ReLoad, they're just as simple as the rest of Newstead's work, the same old 4/4 time, plodding riffs, and relatively meaningless subject matter, just like everything since Burton died.

NicholasDWolfwood wrote:
And as for blackened...damn that's one boring, long-ass song, and apocalyptic lyrics...whooo, thats never been done before, has it?

If it's so boring, why does the crowd hugely pop for it every time they play it, hmm?


Might I remind you that according to "the crowd" St. Anger is a welcome return to form for metallica? I think that speaks for itself.
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Postby NicholasDWolfwood » Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:24 am

St. Anger is a step in the right direction. Obviously you have no sense of music at all if you don't believe that it was thrashier than anything they've done since AJFA.

I've seen videos of Burton. I've also seen videos of countless other bassists. Many bassists are much more skilled than Burton. I don't see anything special in Burton.

It takes more time and practice to be able to play them with three and four? I do believe that it takes more time and practice to get the rhythms to sound right (and to even play them up to speed) with two fingers. If anything, three fingers makes it easier, and since many bassists don't bother with their pinky because it's too short and doesn't move well enough, I won't bother explaining.

I have a lot of musical "nouse," whatever that word means. Maybe I've growl tired of hearing the same arpeggiate based distortion drenched solos, I don't know, but to me it sounds simplistic. I can play that shit at not even a year and a half playing. You give me a day of practicing it and I'll play it for you.

Tono_Fyr: Load/ReLoad doesn't suck. Although there's a lot of filler on there, if they'd combined the good tracks onto one album, it'd be great. Obviously it's the opposite side of the spectrum from thrash, but it's great material. It shows their more bluesy/hard rock side. I expect evolution from any band, since playing the same thing over and over for 20 years would be boring.

Let's just agree to disagree. This is like comparing Kirk Hammett to Dave Mustaine, or Mark Hoppus to Steve DiGiorgio.
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Postby Zaphod_Beeblebrox » Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:34 am

NicholasDWolfwood wrote:St. Anger is a step in the right direction. Obviously you have no sense of music at all if you don't believe that it was thrashier than anything they've done since AJFA.


I didn' say it wasn't thrashy, i was just trying to imply that, compared to their earlier efforts St. Anger is really, really shit, no matter how much aggression they put into it, the songs are too long with riffs that repeat too often, the drums sound too tinny, there are no solos, the lyrics mean sweet f/a and i have a soft spot for the good old idea of an album with an overall theme....and Trujilo can't really compare to Newstead or Burton.

But whatever, i give up. It's about 5:35 in the morning in England so I'm going to sleep :roll:
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Re: Metal bass

Postby rubyeye » Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:42 am

NicholasDWolfwood wrote:Recommend some good metal bass players.


Ingar Amlien - Conception / Crest of Darkness

I've never heard his Crest of Darkness band (it's black/death metal) but with Conception, his bass work really comes through strong - you can feel it up front in the mix.
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